Hey Fred, Thanks for the reply. I'm concerned that you may have taken me in a way that I had not intended. I'm sure that you provide wonderful and stable tunings to whomever you may be serving. I just thought I toss out the idea. I should have known that you would have tried different tuning schemes to narrow down your search in an answer to this puzzle. Next time I will try and be a little more thoughtful in my response. best, greg At 07:36 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Hi Greg, > When I first noticed this, I suspected tuning technique, sequence, >whatever. I experimented in many ways. Initially I tuned completely aurally, >completely strip muted. I pulled unisons in different ways, sometimes all >right strings from the top (pulling the mute one at a time), then left >strings from the bottom. And other permutations, particularly when I >switched to SAT about ten years ago (and was able to quantify it). I have >tuned left string first, right string first, middle string first. Doesn't >matter. I have convinced myself over the years that I can actually do a >solid tuning, but that severe RH change will affect my unisons. > Now the extreme case I mentioned, on Yamaha G-2s, happens in the late >summer, after a rise of a good 40%, with the average pitch of the piano at >+25 - 40 cents. Far more common are more subtle changes. But it was the G-2s >that really got me thinking about it, making notes to myself, documenting. > I now use RCT, and it is very convenient for observing this phenomenon. >In pitch raise mode, simply read left and right strings alternately, unison >by unison, as you tune upward (or whatever direction). Then go back and read >those numbers, and see if you have a saw tooth pattern for the most part. >Sometimes it's subtle, just a cent or two on average, other times it is >quite striking. > Again, I don't claim to have reliable answers to why, but I do have a >pretty good wealth of years of observation. I'll throw out another couple >things I have observed, having to do with pitch change in response to RH >along the treble bridge: >1) On most pianos, the typical pattern has a large change at the bottom of >the treble bridge, lowest plain wires, which decreases up to the treble >break, then just above the break there is a big leap of pitch change. >Strangely, Hamiltons do something different. Same large change at the bottom >of the bridge, tapering to about midway towards the break, but then pitch >change increases again approaching the break. Above the break, pitch change >is suddenly less. >2) High treble varies a lot from model to model. On Hamiltons and some >Steinways (especially 1098s) the top couple octaves tend to be the furthest >off pitch, maybe 40 cents sharp where the tenor was 25 cents. Yamahas tend >to have more movement elsewhere (tenor, just above treble break), but the >high treble is closer to pitch than other areas. > I suppose there must be reasons, but I haven't found them. But I know >what to expect, and it makes my life seem a little more rational, less >random, I guess. > >Regards, >Fred Sturm >University of New Mexico > > >On 3/7/06 8:29 PM, "Greg Newell" <gnewell at ameritech.net> wrote: > > > Fred, > > First I'd like to thank both you and Ron > > Nossaman for your patience in explaining why you > > fret as much over the humidity changes as you do. > > It does seem that you can make rather astute > > predictions in the resultant outcome of a > > seemingly minute climactic change. Admirable! > > I have to wonder about why I don't see > > anywhere near the left, center, right string > > discrepancies that you do. While the pianos in > > the university that I serve do go rather > > drastically out of tune with the change of > > seasons (abominable building) I still don't see > > the unison problems that you do. Those kinds of > > differences would make the pianos sound rather > > hideous wouldn't they? I may get that much rise > > and fall but it's mostly together over the three strings of the unison. > > I cannot dispute your observations about > > the bridge pins but I also have to wonder if > > tuning sequence plays some part in it or not. Do > > you use any electronics? If so how do you use > > them. If the piano is in a practice room would > > you ever feel comfortable enough tuning from the > > bottom up by machine and then checking the end > > result aurally? Seems I remember that Al > > Sanderson maintains that better stability is > > achieved this way. Also, how are these strings > > rendering across bearing points? If you tuned > > with a temperment strip and then tuned in the > > outside strings after setting bearings then you > > could be setting up different tensions in the > > wires even though they sounded fine when you were > > done. This could be especially prevelant if the > > strings weren't rendering all that well. > > I'll quit while I'm behind here and > > patiently allow corrections from the list. Thanks fellas (and ladies too). > > > > best, > > Greg > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives Greg Newell Greg's Piano Forté mailto:gnewell at ameritech.net www.gregspianoforte.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20060308/321e3290/attachment.html
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