Hi Ed, I’ve printed your message to remind me to look for this product when I return to work on this piano later in summer. (Something tells me Canada may still have a moratorium on the Gorilla hunt ;>) BTW Ed, I’ve never enjoyed the result of a CA glue repair on a tuning-pin. It may hold, but the feel of the pin, IMHE anyhow, has been anything but confidence inspiring. Sometimes, there’s just nothing else, especially in an emergency; Like at a concert-hall a few years back when it became immediately apparent why the C6 flange on their older D was lifting every time I tried to tighten the screw. (Any guesses?) I ended up CA’ ing the flange right to the action rail, then returned later on to re-core the rail. Best wishes, Mark C. _____ From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ed Sutton Sent: May 4, 2009 4:40 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] pin-block plugging? Mark- Perhaps you could try a test on this piano. Gorilla Brand Super Glue Impact-Tough Gel Formula is a new product. It claims to be CA glue with rubber particles, and seems to have better shear strength than plain CA. My first test is showing promise. 1) remove the pin 2) swab the hole with Gorilla Super Glue gel 3) spray with accelerator from below the block (to protect the plate finish) 4) drive the pin, attach the string and retune In my test, this glue is working much better than CA or cyano-epoxy, or cyano-epoxy with microfiber. However, it is on an old 5-ply block. It may not work on a Baldwin block. Ed Sutton ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Cramer <mailto:cramer at brandonu.ca> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] pin-block plugging? Thanks David, This is valuable information. I’d wondered about boring from underneath to get a good plug size. There are good portable right-angled portable drills out there, but I worried about my ability to drill a good hole free-hand. Fortunately this instrument is in the building, so we’ll have it moved into the shop over summer, pull the plate and install about a dozen ½” plugs. BTW, this piano has 2/0 pins that were feeling a bit loose over winter, with about a dozen 4/0 mystery pins that gave up altogether. So it’s likely an ideal candidate for spot-plugging, and I’m relieved to know that you and several others have had success with the ½” plugs. Thanks, Mark C. _____ bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Skolnik Sent: May 4, 2009 2:20 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] pin-block plugging? Mark - I'm coming to this a bit late, but I can share something we did once or twice when I was at Manhattan School. Using some arrangement of reverse upcutting counterbore, we inserted the shank of the tool through the pin hole from underneath, then chucked it into a reversible drill, and pulled upward while cutting. That's the general idea...allowing you to cut a 1/2" hole without enlarging the plate hole. It was ingenious, so you can be sure I wasn't the one who thought of it. The trick, of course, is to stop before you start cutting iron. I'm sorry I can't recall the exact tool, or comination of shank and cutter we used. I may still be able to find out, if you're interested. Also, check out Page 162 in http://www.michigandrill.com/catalog/ This isn't what I remember using but it might work. Good luck David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson, NY At 12:14 PM 5/4/2009, you wrote: Thanks Nancy, and Ron. I’ve replaced a couple Bluthner blocks with all their compound fitting requirements, and I can’t say I was significantly faster on the second than the first and I’m not actively looking for a third! :>) I think the main idea behind the 3/8” plug Ron, as you probably know, is to do a repair from the top without having to overly enlarge the tuning-pin hole through the plate. On the few I’ve done, the resultant hole is hardly noticeable, but the repair itself failed, so I guess I’m done with that. However, I’m going to bench-test some ½” plugs in spare time. Thanks again, Mark C. _____ From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [ <mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org> mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Salmon Sent: May 2, 2009 11:41 AM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] pin-block plugging? I recently (within 2 years) plugged part of an odd Weber grand where the pinblock was in 2 parts. The bottom layer was one solid piece of maple, mitred into the case. This I plugged with falconwood plugs; 3/8" only would fit. The top layer, fit to the plate, I replaced with falconwood. Drilled for 2/0 pins. The result is only OK. Just enough torque and is fairly stable. Though I installed a Climate Control unit, the building has radiant and passive solar heat, so it is difficult to judge my results. Were I to do it again I would modify the case and replace both parts of the block. The difficulty was compounded by fitting the plate/block to the mitred base blindly - very tricky and time consuming. I realize the first time for anything is slow. This has been a valuable thread, thanks for raising the question. Nancy Salmon RPT Frostburg State Univ., Maryland On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Mark Cramer <cramer at brandonu.ca> wrote: Interesting thought Marcel, it never donned on me I might be creating a glue-starved joint with aliphatic resin glue. When I use this stuff my practice is to coat both surfaces and let it sit for a minute before assembling, for that very reason. All the same, does it strike you odd that I haven’t had dozens of technicians reply to say “we’ve had nothing but success with pin-block plugs” especially technicians from the era when plugging rather than replacing blocks was the fad. (?) BTW, I think you’re right, a bench experiment would probably solve the mystery in a hurry. Best regards, Mark Cramer, RPT Brandon University _____ From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [ mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org <mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org> ] On Behalf Of Marcel Carey Sent: April 30, 2009 7:04 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] pin-block plugging? Hi Mark, >From your description, I think you might be drilling too SMALL for the plug. There has to be a gap. You might just be pushing all the glue out of the hole and then when you repin the whole plug might turn. Of course after putting in bigger pins the plug eventually sticks there. I've seen it done at Steinway factory for a pin that was too loose to start with. If it has worked for them, it has to work for you too. Maybe you could experiment in an old piece of block until you find the right combination. Marcel Carey Sherbrooke _____ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:12:26 -0500 From: cramer at brandonu.ca To: caut at ptg.org Subject: [CAUT] pin-block plugging? Now and then I run into a situation where plugging a tuning-pin hole and re-drilling seems like the only option. IOW, neither an over-sized pin, CA glue nor an emery paper shim will work. I’ve tackled this fairly carefully, even using a small portable drill press clamped to the keybed to get a precise hole, but I never seem to get a good result: I’ve used plugs from both economy blocks and Bolduc blocks. The plugs are a tight fit to the wood, and really have to be driven home. I’ve used carpenter’s glue. Nonetheless, the results always seem to end up the same. I bore for a 1/0 pin, then end up installing a 2/0, then up-sizing to a 3/0, and often a 4/0!? Anyone have success with this? Over the years some of you must’ve plugged and re-bored entire pin-blocks. What’s your secret? Thanks, Mark Cramer, RPT Brandon University _____ Windows Live Messenger vous permet de rester en contact plus facilement- apprenez comment! <http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650737> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut_ptg.org/attachments/20090504/d7ec6b3e/attachment-0001.html>
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