more on this temperament thing...

David Ilvedson ilvey@sbcglobal.net
Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:17:35 -0700


Thanks Tom...very interesting!

David I.



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 10/19/01 at 10:29 PM Tom Servinsky wrote:

>David,
>The tuning of wind and string instruments is completely "just" tuning.
>ET or HT temperament does not come into play at all. "Just" tuning is
>referred to the tuning of absolutely pure intervals.
> Obviously most of these instruments are capable of playing only one note
>at
>time so their tuning responsibilities have several criteria to meet:
>Most orchestral instruments must be put into  good relative tune by the
>player. That is, they must have a good semblance to concert A440 through
>out
>the instrument in all octaves. The problem is  all orchestral instruments
>are inherently relatively out of tune within themselves, so a good player
>must thoroughly understand his/her instrument and no where the trouble
>spots
>are.
>Orchestral players must all have the ability to react and adjust their
>tuning to be in tune with other instruments playing within that chord.
>Absolutely pure octaves, 5ths,4ths, and even 3rds must be dead on clean.
>So if the melody line is being played by an instrument which has a note
>which tends to be sharp, then the other instruments playing within that
>chord must adjust up or down to "just" tune to make that interval
>absolutely
>pure.
>The interesting aspect of playing in an orchestra is the pitch is
>constantly
>changing to correct and adjust with whatever is being played.  Good case
in
>point, take a oboe player who basically plays very well in tune but has a
>middle G which tends to play sharp. Good orchestras will adjust to  that
>sharpness in a spilt second to "just" tune that particular sequence than
>return back to the A440 pitch center.
>So to answer your question, no... temperament does not play into wind and
>string instruments tuning.
>Again, as stated earlier, it's amazing that the orchestral tuning and the
>tuning of a piano, be it ET or HT with all the complexities they require,
>still exist and astound audiences as well as they have done.
>Tom Servinsky,RPT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net>
>To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:54 PM
>Subject: Re: more on this temperament thing...
>
>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Of course some pianists are going to like HT.  I have talked with one
>great
>> jazz pianist and he hated HT, absolutely hated it.  I don't believe for
>> second that the majority would ever take HT over ET on a regular basis.
>> Question:  Do other instruments have to be set up for HT?  What is the
>> tuning on a saxophone for instance?  Is tuned to some sort of a ET?
>> Obviously pitch can be altered as playing somewhat...how much?
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 10/19/01 at 7:18 PM Ron Koval wrote:
>>
>> >In response to those that have talked about playing music that is not
in
>> >the
>> >"right" keys for alternate temperaments, I'd like to share a little
>story.
>> >
>> >I work at a performing arts high school, where I freely experiment on
>the
>> >faculty.  A few years ago, a new faculty member came that is a jazz
>> >pianist.
>> >  This coincided with my interest in tuning alternate temperaments, so
I
>> >set
>> >on his piano many different HTs.  At that time I used the mind-set of
>> >making
>> >the thirds at the top of the circle of fifths sound BETTER than those
at
>> >the
>> >bottom.
>> >
>> >An ****AHAAAA**** moment with this faculty member forced me to rethink
>my
>> >'tuner's' mindset.  I had recently retuned his piano and he showed up
at
>> >lunch and said, "wow, what did you do to my piano?  I played this chord
>> >and
>> >just had to let it ring, it sounded so great!"
>> >
>> >Being in the tuner's mindset, I thought to myself, "He must have liked
>the
>>
>> >C,G, or F chord, with the real smooth thirds."  Imagine my surprise
when
>> >he
>> >said it was a Db arpeggio from the middle to the top; over a B, F#, and
>an
>> >A
>> >in the bass.
>> >
>> >*******AHAAAAAAA********  What an alternate temperament gives a
composer
>> >or
>> >a pianist is like a painter's pallette;  more tone color to play with.
>> >Blue
>> >isn't better or worse than red, it's just different. Likewise, C isn't
>> >better than F#, it's just different. In the hands of an accomplished
>> >composer, or performer, alternate temperaments enhance the pallette of
>> >sound
>> >available through modulation.
>> >
>> >something to chew on this weekend!
>> >
>> >Ron Koval
>> >
>> >Chicagoland
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>
>>
>>





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