Charging for Pitch Raises

[Mike Kurta]

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    Bill, there are a lot of variables involved in how stable a piano =
might be after a pitch raise and fine tuning.  The major one in my mind =
is how far out was it to begin with.  The worst I've seen was 3 =
semitones flat.  After tuning one note, the next one up in chromatic =
sequence (untuned) was in perfect harmony a third below the one I'd just =
tuned!!  WOW.  I'm sure this piano would be drifting flat within 2 weeks =
even after a pitch raise and tune.  That brings up another point.  How =
many technicians raise pitch in increments in this case?  I find no =
reason not to yank each string over pitch by 1/3 of the flatness no =
matter how flat it is.  String breakage does not seem to be a problem, =
and 40-50 cents over is not unusual.  However in talking to those in our =
Syracuse chapter leaving the piano below pitch, or raising in 10-20 cent =
steps until the proper pitch is reached it most common.  Any comments?   =
  Mike Kurta  PNO2NER
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: William R. Monroe=20
  To: pianotech@ptg.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:16 PM
  Subject: Re: Charging for Pitch Raises


  Mike and List,

  If one properly pitch raises an instrument, and finishes with a solid =
fine tuning, is there validity saying that the instrument will not hold =
this tuning as well as if it were tuned regularly?  I was under the =
impression that in this scenario, the instrument would hold tune well, =
perhaps only slightly less well than a regularly serviced instrument on =
which PR are not needed or performed.

    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Mike Kurta=20
    To: pianotech@ptg.org=20
    Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:59 AM
    Subject: Re: Charging for Pitch Raises


        I never charge for a pitch raise, however I don't discount if =
one isn't needed either.  I used to charge for mileage too,  but don't =
any more.  One price for all is my rule now.  I might be a bit higher =
than the norm for this area, but I find it all averages out in the end.  =
I like consistency.  If a pitch raise is needed, I explain to the =
customer what I'm doing, and that the finished tuning will be up to =
pitch and sound great, but it won't stay in tune quite as long this =
first time.  (Assuming its been 3-5 years since the last tuning, which =
is often the case).  I then encourage them to begin an annual tuning =
schedule which after 2-3 years will bring their piano back to a stable =
situation.  I prefer using this method rather than either (1) raising =
the pitch in increments, thus leaving the piano at less than A440, or =
(2) recommending another tuning be done in 1-3 months, and again raising =
pitch in steps.  Not every owner follows this recommendation, but I =
hesitate to appear as though I'm pushing more tunings as well as leaving =
the piano out of tune.  If I do return in a year, usually follow-up =
pitch raises are not necessary, and I feel the slight additional charge =
for all tunings covers the occasional pitch raises that are needed.    =
Mike Kurta
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Dave Nereson=20
      To: pianotech@ptg.org=20
      Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:45 AM
      Subject: Re: Charging for Pitch Raises



        ----- Original Message -----=20
        From: William R. Monroe=20
        To: Pianotech=20
        Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 6:26 PM
        Subject: Charging for Pitch Raises


        I was reading an old essay (PTJ August '90) by Rick Baldassin =
regarding Piano Tuning Stability.  Within that article, Rick writes =
about tuning for a concert and remarks that after a rehearsal, the =
treble was really out.  'Why?  The treble notes were too far out of tune =
to create a stable tuning in one pass on the tuning.'  He stated that =
when he tuned the instrument prior to the rehearsal, the 6th and 7th =
octaves were flat, 'maybe as much as four cents.'

        So, in a nutshell, if your piano is four cents flat, your tuning =
will not be stable (for a concert level tuning). =20

        My questions:
         1.) Really?  Is four cents flat too much to get a stable =
concert tuning?

        2.) For our regular clients, when do we begin charging for a =
pitch raise, 5 cents, 10 cents, 20 cents?  I realize that neither all =
clients, nor their instruments will require this level tuning, but where =
do we draw the line and say we must raise pitch to get a stable tuning?

        I am very interested to hear as many opinions on this one as =
possible.

        Thank you,

        William R. Monroe
        PTG Associate
        Salt Lake City, UT

            Yes, 4 cents flat is probably too flat to get a stable =
concert tuning in one pass.  Back when people referred to beats per =
second (at A 49) more often than cents, someone at a seminar said that =
anything more than 2 beats per second flat would require a pitch raise =
to be stable in one pass.  I find (in the home, not concert tunings) =
that that's about right most of the time. =20
            For clients, whether regular or not, I suppose you should =
charge extra for any tuning that requires more passes to stabilize than =
one on a piano that's already at pitch.  I don't think I've ever done a =
"one-pass tuning".  It's always once through to do the initial tuning, =
then another time through to re-tune the ones that slipped, then I take =
out the ear plugs and go through again for a final touch-up.  The second =
two "passes" are very quick and are considered part of the tuning.  =20
            If I had even a nickel for every free pitch raise I've done, =
I could probably buy a new couch or something.  Sometimes I just don't =
want to go drag the customer away from what they're doing to tell them =
there's going to be an extra charge.  Sometimes I charge and sometimes I =
don't -- I know, that's inconsistent, but since the pitch raise takes =
only 10 or 15 minutes, I usually just quickly bang it out rather than go =
get them to give 'em the lecture about tension, humidity, dryness, =
string stretching, tuning every 6 months, etc.  Even if I do, it doesn't =
do any good.  They still wait 2 to10 years before they get it tuned =
again, even if I leave literature about it.  I've almost given up on =
explaining about and charging for pitch raises.  Almost all pianos I =
tune need one, except those that get tuned every year (schools, piano =
teachers), and even some of those need a "quickie raise or lower" in the =
middle, depending what season it was when they were last tuned. =20
              I dunno, for me it's easier to have the charge for a pitch =
raise figured in to the "regular" base fee, and if it doesn't need a =
p.r., give them a $10 or $15 discount.      --David Nereson, RPT, Denver

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