Killer Octave Question

[Isaac OLEG]

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Re: Killer Octave QuestionHi, lighten on those Erards' (or I send you
pictures of the Chickering ;>)   they where sold to be holding around 50
years, build to hold 100 years, and the last 1936 grand concert model I've
seen, (90 notes) while having lost most of the crown in the killer zone of
the Bermudas, (under 30%RH and way too much heat) is yet giving us something
of a piano tone.

excerpt of a  Erard London catalogue :

"The DURABILITY of the ERARD Pianoforte is proverbial , and is one of its
most valuable characteristics. While many instruments are worthless after  a
few years' use, the ERARD can be effectively restored to its original
excellent condition when 30years or even 50 years old".

I have meet a few 1915-25 Erards' over strung with a REAL crowning from bass
to treble (2 that I recall for sure) , the owners never care to have them
rebuild or even repaired as they are yet giving a nice tone (that is
desperation for the piano technician)
I was not aware of the crowning method employed in these days so I did not
took notes and pictures, but I know one of them I can have a look at and I
will try to these days.  I had make the effort to go under the piano with a
thread on the 2 pianos I think of.

Building and installing crown compressed soundboards have been told me as
being far way more difficult than rib crowned ones, and I see no advertising
about the method nowhere (and indeed most pianist should not understand the
difference). Seems unfair to me to talk as you do.

I have the impression too that everyone there is focusing on crown and
durability, while not many are comparing  the response characteristics of
the methods.
While building soundboard that are supposed to travel and be installed in a
repaired instrument far from the soundboard building place it is
understandable that crown compression (and not only  if I understand well)
is used, but how can you attain an internal assembly tension as high and
then a delay in springiness response with the ribs as the most active
elements ?
Are not we using this process to build the internal spring rate of the
soundboard ?

Being not experienced in these process I certainly will not argue on those
matters with you, but I seem to recall that even Del was building so called
"compression crowned soundboard in its early stages"  BTW thanks, Del for
your clearing on the "neutral fiber laying" it was exactly that concept I
was talking of .

I liked you to admit that may be those that still use this method don't
understand nothing to the process !!! , but they certainly not do that for
facility reasons , nor for marketing, from what I know, I am yet to see a
brand saying something about their crown building method (while the process
is better known actually because of such a lobbying made, may be Steinway NY
advertise on that now ???)

Everybody agrees we could build pianos without any crown if necessary, so
the presence of crown is not the only proof of the taste of the pudding I'd
say !

Well the next soundboard I will build I will use S shaped ribs and a
compressssed sssshaping method . Or we'll do again a soundboard with strings
on the 2 sides to produce eventually a double vertical (for twin brothers or
sisters that should be nice).


Have a nice Easter anyone !

Isaac OLEG

Isaac OLEG

Entretien et reparation de pianos.

PianoTech
17 rue de Choisy
94400 VITRY sur SEINE
FRANCE
tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98
fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90
cell: 06 60 42 58 77

  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la
part de Ron Overs
  Envoye : lundi 21 avril 2003 01:23
  A : Pianotech
  Objet : Re: Killer Octave Question


  Ron N. and all,


      Yes indeed. Now this leads me to wonder just how much longer we might
expect a sound board with a properly laminated panel to last?

    Hi Ron,
    Wouldn't the question more fundamentally be how much longer will the
panel last if we design it to be rib supported rather than panel supported?

    Ron N


  I am assuming that a serious sound board will be rib crowned, but a
laminated all spruce panel with rib crowning must surely be an excellent
combination.


  I am assuming that any piano maker worth his/her salt will be using the RC
process for crown. I cannot understand how anyone who claims to be serious
about piano manufacture would use compression crowning. The reality is, of
course, that those who persist in using it are focused on the marketing and
not the product. Its a lot quicker to make sound boards with straight planed
ribs, while drying the hell out of the panel to achieve a crown which
hopefully lasts long enough for the castors to come to rest on the
lounge-room carpet. Recently, Del and Terry were discussing a certain
manufacturer who claimed to have achieved perfection by 1930. An Erard
representative made a similar claim at an 1880s trade fair (it is mentioned
in Men Women and Pianos - but I haven't been able to find the reference -
should anyone know the page no. of this quote I would be interested to
hear). And where can the famous Erard be found today outside of Museums?


  The logical conclusion we can draw is that claiming perfection is an
admission of 'pending corporate death'. Certainly one swallow doesn't make
it summer, but here we have two swallows. There's always some-one waiting in
the wings to carry the banner forward.


  Regarding the fit-up of flat bridges to crowned sound boards, as I think
one other technician mentioned on the list, we are talking strictly about
the fit-up of a logarithmic style long bridges. Hockey stick long bridges
truly are 'dust bin' technology.


  Ron O.
--
_______________________

  OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY
  Grand Piano Manufacturers


  Web: http://overspianos.com.au
  mailto:info@overspianos.com.au
  _______________________

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