what's with the new temperaments

[Richard Moody]

> Hello Ric,
>      As I am rather poorly informed, in general, as to the
history of
> temperament - whether of the various forms of HT's or ET itself,

The article "Temperaments" in New Groves is IMHO definitive source
other than the original historical writings.   Ellis in Helmholtz
gives a good history of Meantone and ET.  The articles in various
encyclopedias are good esp Britannica and their previous
editions. ---rm



I
> hesitate to post comments in a public forum, and ask that they
be taken
> for what they are -  merely, a hesitant, casual, first effort at
> commentary on a rather diffuse subject.  Nevertheless, I think I
am on
> solid ground in insisting that if the question is the usefulness
or lack
> thereof of the harmonic values of  various systems of
temperament, equal
> or unequal,  and the nature of intervals themselves,  then the
tuning
> characteristics of ensemble playing instrumentally, or of vocal
music
> should be given preeminence in any generalization as to the
natural
> tuning preferences in temperament systems, in contrast, to
> generalizations derived from the temperaments themselves.
>      The nature of these preferences are best discerned in
taking note
> of the intervalic tuning in freely tunable instruments and the
voice
> itself, of course, in combinations.   Here, as I indicated last
week,
> the entire concept of key color is an isolated sophistry
emanating from
> keyboard work itself, and not in any way central, as far as I
can tell,
> to music.  The range of these preferences, in my experience, is
almost
> always in the direction of reduction, where possible, of the
dissonance
> of ET values of intervals and this, whether one listens to
highly
> skilled orchestra players, trained singers in vocal work, double
or
> triple stops on the violin or other string instruments, and,
especially
> telling, musically untutored, untrained individuals that are
asked to
> sing a tone or tones above a bass note.
>       Such individuals will  arrive, with a little prompting to
sing, at
> tones that are in clear intervalic relationships, usually, the
third,
> the fifth, fourth, sixth, or octave, or their compounds,  above
the note
> without any training whatsoever, even if their tuning is
unstable.  This
> will  happen with the individual being entirely unconscious of
the fact
> that he sings an interval that has a harmonic relationship to
the bass
> note, for the person does not need to know any of these things,
> something that is always a source of wonder to me, and suggests,
what
> seems plain to me, the intrinisic nature of these intervals,
among
> several,  to human consciousness.
>      Furthermore, the same can be done by completely untrained
children,
> who may be as young as a year and a half, or so, just beginning
to walk
> and talk.  What is aimed at in these cases, although perhaps
realized in
> a variable fashion, are the just intervals, devoid of artificial
> constraints.
>      Having said all of this I think the contrast of key color
that
> exists in various temperaments is, nevertheless, a  useful and
> interesting thing, although, in the larger scheme, an artifice,
as I
> indicated earlier.  As such, I would argue, that we should be
aware that
> it is, indeed,  a secondary  phenomenon, incidental in a way to
the
> fundamental nature of music, and that generalizing from this as
a point
> of departure for musical questions may lead to doubtful
conclusions.
>      I don't know very much concering the evolution of
temperament but
> would say from a musical perspective that had the octave been
divisible
> by three exact major thirds, and were it capable of being fitted
into by
> the just values of the other intervals,  which of course is
> mathematically impossible,  then the complexities of temperament
would
> not have evolved and such speaks again to the immaterial degree
of its
> fundamental utility.
>      I have heard music rendered in various temperaments and
played on
> such instruments.  In general, as perhaps would be expected from
early
> commentary, I found the improvements to be the improved sonority
of keys
> in which the thirds and sixths were less "out of tune", that is,
> tempered to a lesser degree.
> Regards, Robin Hufford
>
> Richard Moody wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Robin Hufford <hufford1@airmail.net>
> > To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: what's with the new temperaments
> >
> > >that ET is "just another HT" and that both have a use.  I do
> > > think, however, that the very precise ET, at least in the
piano
> > and
> > > harpsichord used in this day and age,  is a by-product of
the
> > >increasing  skillset accumulating now for close to ten
> > generations >among  professional piano tuners and correlates
> > substantially with >their(our) early development.
> >
> > > Regards, Robin Hufford
> >
> > While I would go further than "just another HT".  ET has its
own
> > history and deserves its own name like "early ET" or
"historical
> > ET.
> >     ET evolved, and perhaps still is evolving.  The
development of
> > ET has a long and fascinating history---the study of which has
> > only begun to scratch the surface.  Consider that 90 percent
of
> > the historical record of tuning has not been translated (into
> > English).
> >     This is evident when whole books such as Montal published
in
> > 1830's "are discovered" in the 1970's, or the writings of the
> > English themselves languish unread in numerous magazines of
the
> > 18th and 19th centuries. What is stored on microfilm in the
> > Library of Congress would take months to go through.  Nothing
from
> > the French or Germans has been translated.  We don't know what
> > Werkmeister or Kirnberger actually wrote.     We have the
cents
> > offsets but are they accurate to the author's actual words,
and
> > who decides this?
> > Music historians, musicologists?  Sure, and better if they
have
> > also been trained as piano tuners especially by ear and even
> > better if they can play enough to highlight what they have
tuned.
> >     As an example, the directions by Pietro Aaron have finally
> > been  translated.  All two pages.  Here we see how harpsichord
> > players were instructed to tune their instruments.  With the
> > emphasis on pure 3rds we can conclude Meantone, and from the
> > theory of Meantone give a cents scheme which then can be
> > programmed into ETD's.  But when you read the original aural
> > instructions, some ambiguities are immediately evident, so, if
you
> > only read them that is what you will be stuck with. Would you
read
> > a recipe for making pasta in 1520 but not try it out ?
> >       But if you follow the instructions and actually tune
> > according to them it is a different level both in
understanding
> > and experience of history.  The results might be different
from
> > the cents interpretation, but Aaron did not tune by cents back
> > then.   And this gets into how systematic schemes while trying
to
> > produce uniformity, had more variance in practice then on
paper.
> > This is because the systems themselves were evolving.  Aaron's
> > scheme seems crude to what we know today about how meantone
should
> > look in theory on paper and in cents  but tuning according
Aaron
> > himself is as close to history as you can get.
> >     The same goes for the ET schemes.  We now have James
> > Broadwood's instructions from  1811, Hipkin's comments from
1840,
> > and Ellis's direct measurements of 4 of Broadwoods tuners
1880.
> > He also gives the two procedures used by manufacturers
Broadwood
> > and Moore and Moore.   These are examples of historic ETs  or
> > early ETs.
> > If one only reads them or about them, a limited but
nevertheless
> > useful insight can be gained.  How ever if one takes up the
tuning
> > hammer and tunes according to them, we are that much closer to
> > what was heard in those times. We can also get an idea of how
much
> > they might have varied from tuning to tuning.  Without the
3rds
> > checks we moderns expect variance.  However until we actually
try
> > aural tuning according to the original instructions we are
only
> > speculating.  Hearing how the music sounds when played in one
of
> > these historic or early ET renderings certainly beats
speculating
> > about how and were the "colors" might-
> > should-maybe-not-perhaps be.       ---rm
> >
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