No Power Yamaha revisited

Isaac OLEG oleg-i@wanadoo.fr
Fri, 23 May 2003 20:56:59 +0200


Hello Roger,

I like a bit of clearing on the bedding aurally too, I listen for
knock on the front rail, pushing on it with my thumb to compare the
noise, I understand we can listen to an open or too compressed balance
rail, but I am not sure I understand when you say that you aim for the
same tone - You mean the same tone all along each rail, or a tone that
tells the quality of the weight on the frame ?

Or is it to be done without the keys ?

I've been a long time confusing knocks that came from the back rail,
very often when the regulating screws are screwed a lot, and the
knocking of a correctly bedded balance rail (that knocks evenly and
easily even if there is a lot of pressure, assuming it is evenly
distributed.

Are the intermediate screws (hidden) checked for knocking in the same
"tone" idea ?

thanks and Best regards.


Isaac OLEG


Isaac OLEG

Entretien et reparation de pianos.

PianoTech
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> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org
> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la
> part de Roger Jolly
> Envoye : vendredi 23 mai 2003 02:52
> A : Pianotech
> Objet : Re: No Power Yamaha revisited
>
>
>
>
> Hi Avery & Ric,
>                           I have a good minds eye view, of
> what is going
> on, but I'm not so sure I can explain it well.   But here
> goes.  (Send me a
> deluxe flame suit Conrad).
>
> If you have the bolts just touching, there is no
> compression force acting
> on the balance rail.  With rapid forceful playing, there is
> a small amount
> of bounce taking place at the balance rail, robbing the
> action of a lot of
> energy.  It gets dissipated within the frame.
> Jack the bolts a little further down,  you start to bow the cross
> struts.  and putting some compression into the rail. , and
> firmly seating
> it to the bed.   At the Yamaha Technical Academy, they
> spend a good deal of
> time teaching you how to tune these rails in aurally.
> takes more than a
> little practice to get optimum results.
> The front rail is done first, by tapping on the front rail
> with a kind of
> 45 degree blow, to the leading edge of the rail.  (You can
> hear better than
> the traditional method of holding a key down and thumping
> on the key, the
> front rail punching absorbs a lot of noise,) Then the bolts
> are adjusted so
> the front rail just starts to lift, then back off about 1/4
> turn.  Next
> step is get all the glides bedded so the tone is the same
> when lifting up
> on the hammer rail, and thumping down on the balance rail.
>
> The closest analogy I can think of,  is like string bearing
> across the
> bridge.  Too much bearing and a loss of tone, too little
> loss of tone.
>
> Now I will crawl under my rock and smile.
>
> Regards Roger
>
> PS  I thought we covered the topic of hardwood and softwood
> rails, quite
> well in the Interactive Grand Regulation series.  Gee that
> was 2 years
> ago.  Tempus fugit.
>
>
> At 04:03 PM 5/22/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hi Roger,
> >
> >But why won't Yamaha tell us how they do it? (See my
> previous post to
> >Richard.)
> >
> >Avery
> >
> >At 01:56 PM 05/22/03 -0600, you wrote:
> >>Hi Ric,
> >>            A very soft flexible action frame, they move
> a lot.  I bed
> >> these frames every time I tune a Yamaha grand.
> >>With practice it only takes about 3 or 4 minutes.  The
> weight of the keys
> >>is more than enough to flex those frames, hence the change in dip.
> >>The design is such that the frame is is supposed to flex.
> >>Bin thar and bought the tee shirt.   <G>
> >>
> >>Regards Roger
> >>
> >>At 06:12 PM 5/22/2003 +0200, you wrote:
> >>>Ok guys and gals...
> >>>
> >>>I gots to eat crow here...  I think anyways. As it turns
> out I managed
> >>>to finnally solve the hammers bouncing all over the
> place thing by
> >>>turning up all the bed screws so that the key frame was
> solidly bedded
> >>>with the actuall wood of the balance rail a full 2 mm
> elevated over the
> >>>key bed. Huge increase in power, but this also caused an
> increase in
> >>>keydip to 10.5 mm (!) and forced a drop in blow to just above the
> >>>cushions... perhaps the shanks are about 2-3 mm off. However....
> >>>absolutly no bouncing of neighboring hammers any more,
> and that feeling
> >>>of loosing power is gone.
> >>>
> >>>What I dont get is why the Balance Rail needs to be
> elevated so much.
> >>>And how are we supposed to determine the proper balance
> rail height to
> >>>begin with ? I was always told that glide bolts need to just make
> >>>contact with the key bed... not to lift the whole darn
> middle of the key
> >>>frame up.
> >>>
> >>>Explainations please ?
> >>>
> >>>RicB
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Richard Brekne
> >>>RPT, N.P.T.F.
> >>>UiB, Bergen, Norway
> >>>mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
> >>>http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
> >>>http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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