Robin, >I have tuned a very lot of them and would disagree with this. I have tuned a 'very lot' of them as well, with opposite experiences to yours. How does one decide whom is correct? >Perhaps they should try it to keep the customers happy. (Sorry this was a >low blow but I couldn't resist it.). This is actually a very good point. The customers, generally, are very happy indeed! Your experiences are not at all the norm, but since your mind is made up about this issue, you cannot conceive that any Kawai piano will stay in tune! Many others on this list have already written to say that they find Kawai pianos hold their tunings very well. A few who may share your opinions will say the opposite. > I don't know why it would take an engineer to expect this would be > likely to happen. No one said it had to, Robin. Or were you just continuing in a derogatory vein? >But, one may need an engineer to consider all the other effects of this >motion, the forces that produce it and moment associated with it. The >proper design, should one be committed to such a system, would be to cast >a flange in the plate at the front of the block and plate, thereby >trapping the block and stabilizing its motion. This is not necessary either, because the majority of the force is already being borne by the plate webbing itself. The rearward force is relatively small, and the plate screws can easily hold the pinblock in place. > Obviously, the factory believes it has a system that works and that > this motion is constrained but, as you can see, I must, from > experience, disagree. Well, one answer to this is that, perhaps, your experiences have been modified by your expectations. None of us are free from bias, and I submit to you that once you had one piano that gave you trouble, from then on you have looked for a problem in all of the others. And, as usual, looking for a problem, ones finds it whether it is actually there or not. Since a Kawai "factory rep" seems to have insulted your tuning skills at some point, I am sure that makes it all the more difficult to be neutral and unbiased. > This motion, not competely constrained at times, as I believe it is, > although the factory will, no doubt, claim it isn't and that this has > been thoroughly analyzed, which it hasn't, This is an arrogant statement. How do you know it hasn't been analyzed? Because you believe so strongly that the design is wrong - yet I believe just as strongly to the contrary, also based on many years of experience in the field as well as while working for the company. I can only assure you that Kawai has a pretty incredible engineering staff who are also trained as piano technicians, and they have made decisions on the designs and manufacturing methods with good reasons. We may not agree with their reasons, of course, but saying it was not thoroughly analyzed shows some kind of misguided superiority complex on your part. In my past clientele I had no more trouble stabilizing Kawai grands (KGs or otherwise) than with any other brand. When I first learned of the pinblock fitting method when coming to work for Kawai I criticized it on principle - yet I also knew that the pianos were as stable as any, which is why I was willing to listen to the engineering explanation. You stated: >Admittedly, as you are lucky enough to have had an experience of, some of their pianos will retain an acceptable level of stability, although I would say it >takes an exceptional tuner to produce a really great level of stability on such pianos. How can this be? If there is a physical design flaw, then how could a better tuner have an influence? Think about it! Think more carefully about the stresses on the pin bushings - it is no harder for a hard maple plate bushing to withstand the pressure of the pin than it is for the top of a hard maple pinblock to do the same. The potential for wood deformation and pin flex is lower, because the string tension is applied so much more closely to the wood. There is no difficulty for the bushing to withstand it's portion of the string tension on each string. >contributes to string breakage along with tuning instability, particularly >around the fourth octave and upwards as it has, I believe, the effect of >forcing upwards the webbing area of the plate, this being also another >source of the instability sometimes evident. I believe that the >combination of this backwards force and the moment it exerts against the >plate, when combined with loose plate bolts, which, of course, should be >prevented by proper maintainence but so often are not, account, to some >degree, for the frequently found string breakage on such instruments. Here you are revealing much. On the one hand you attempt to use engineering terms, but then you start to call upon a belief system to argue a point of string breakage being related to the pinblock fitting system. This is quite a stretch, so to speak. > Usually, the pianos I have repaired with these problems have exhibited > string breakage which, in general, ceases upon the repair. The hammers > are normally, voiced some too and this may, of course, reduce the > subsequent tendancy to breakage, although, this corrective normally has > already been tried before the repairs described above have been made and > found inadequate. . String breakage stops when the weakened wire is replaced or the bends are relocated, and the hammers are shaped. This is true in any piano of any brand. I worked in the field for many years, and learned this independently of any manufacturer's input. I would submit that you already know this as well, but your having mentioned that these pianos were voiced does not absolve you of bringing up the absurd notion that string breakage could be related to the pinblock fitting method. I know of a large university which bought a large stock of very fine pianos with full fitted pinblocks. These pianos began breaking treble strings within 2 years, as any brand could given the right conditions. That technician did not blame the piano, but the conditions and the style of play. As I said in my last message, I would prefer that the pinblocks were fitted in the factory, because when technicians have trouble stabilizing a piano they would be less likely to try to blame the piano, and more likely to find the real cause. All criticism aside, I really am sorry to hear you have had bad experiences with Kawai pianos, and with someone in Kawai's service area. Each piano brand has it's share of technicians who will denigrate it for practices they see as incorrect, probably because we all want to have some kind of apparently logical explanation for our personal preferences. I don't expect to eliminate your objections and replace your experiences with any statement written here, but you should know that your experiences are not at all universal, and in fact are quite unusual. Don Mannino RPT
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