This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Merry Christmas All! I am a technician "in training" up here in Door County, Wisconsin. It is a white and COLD Christmas. I'm in an apprenticeship with Peter Nehlsen, RPT of Washington Island. I have many stories and experiences from my many trips to the Island to learn in his shop. I am learning so much in my apprenticeship and it is so valuable to be a part of this listserv. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience on so many different topics. Hopefully I'll be able to add something from my experience in the future. Until then, I appreciate all of you! Thank you! On a side note-- David, "Spif" is a common term used in the sales world. When I used to be a mortgage broker, we would often get a "spif" from realtors for referring business. Or we might get a "spif" from the company for exemplary performance. At our business, it was an acronym for "Special Performance Incentive Fund (or Fee)." I don't know how this would fit in with the referral of the sale of a piano...but it's interesting to note parallels from the different sales worlds. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you ALL! Sincerely, Andrew Olson Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Birch Creek Music Performance Center, Egg Harbor, Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 11:53 AM To: 'Pianotech' Subject: RE: Piano Finder Fee On the surface that seems a bit harsh. Having a finder's fee which is split between buyer and seller would not be an unusual arrangement and would defer costs slightly from each party. As long as there wasn't a conflict of interest driving the sale. I obviously don't know the specifics surrounding the deal but I certainly see guild members doing things that seem less ethical-maybe just more incompetent-than that and are members in good standing. It appears that the tech simply asked for a fee after the fact. No harm in asking. If the dealer wanted to give a "spiff" (never heard that word before), then that's up to the dealer, it seems to me. I wouldn't do it that way myself, but barring him from membership in the guild? Maybe a discussion of what is considered ethical conduct in the guild would have been more appropriate. More typically, a "finders" fee is paid by the customer who wishes to employ your services and is separate from a "commission" paid by the seller. Finder's fees or commissions can either be a flat fee or a percentage of the sale. Commissions from the seller vary from dealer to dealer and party to party and, like all such fees, are best negotiated in advance. This is separate yet from a fee for inspection in which you are hired to go inspect a piano and might amount to a fee similar to a service call. Commissions for independent techs (different from a commission if you are a dealer taking in a piano on consignment) typically range between 3% and 15% probably averaging around 10%. David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul McCloud Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:46 AM To: Pianotech Subject: Re: Piano Finder Fee A few years ago, I had invited a technician to join the local Guild chapter. The following incident caused him to be barred from entrance into the Guild. The tech was hired to look at a S&S grand at our store. We don't sell new Steinways, but had several used ones for sale. The customer didn't like any of them, so they went to the Steinway dealer to look at new ones. He was asked to evaluate one of the pianos there. Without removing the action, he looked it over and declared it suitable for his customer. The customer paid him for his services. Later, he approached the salesperson and asked if there might be some spiff for bringing in his customer. His reasoning was that our store (not Steinway franchise dealer) was going to give him one, so would they offer him one as well? It wasn't arm twisting, but he did get a spiff from the dealer. Another tech (Guild member) was present for the sale at the dealer. When he found that this tech had received pay from both dealer and customer, he used his influence to have this tech barred from membership. Paul McCloud San Diego ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Fox To: Pianotech Sent: 12/24/2004 7:29:21 AM Subject: Re: Piano Finder Fee Hi Terry, My Wissner was located through a third party who supposedly wanted a 10% finder's fee. It turns out that the "real" fee he was trying to swing for himself (by lying to both buyer and seller) was much, much higher -- something like 50% over the seller's price. (In the end, the deal didn't happen the way he had hoped.) Anyway, 10% was considered fair in NYC for a deal in which the finder didn't really have to do any more than to put two parties in contact. If you are doing other things for the buyer (e.g. evaluating the pianos), then I would think you should ask more. Perhaps you could charge a fee per piano that you evaluate, plus 10% of the sale? Peace, Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry To: pianotech@ptg.org Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: Piano Finder Fee I have been asked by a client of mine to find a good used piano for their daughter. I am always happy to work with folks to get rid of the junk and get a nice piano. The guy is willing to spend up to the $3K to $4K range (maybe a nice used Yamy upright). He appears to be the type of guy that simply doesn't have the time to do it himself, but wants it to happen. He said "find me a nice piano and I'll take care of you". We didn't talk about any specifics. So it seems apparent to me that he is willing to pay a finder's fee if I find him a nice piano. I am aware that some dealers will sell a piano for a private owner on consignment. I don't know what percentage is typical. I sold two bicycles at two different stores for a 25% consignment fee. I have a third at another store that will charge a 15% consignment fee. What kind of consignment fees do stores charge for a piano sold on consignment. Is that any basis for a finder's fee? Has anyone done this sort of thing for a third party? How did it work. What were the financial arrangements? Thanks. Terry Farrell ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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