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=20
Ouch!! I particularly like the phrase =93Gallic fiend=94!=20
Receiving the Pianotech list in digest form as I do, I long for the day
when I will be able to instruct the server to delete posts from certain
individuals before forwarding to my box.=20
Mr. Mannino will most certainly NOT be on that list of do-not-forward
posters.
=20
- Mark
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Mannino [mailto:donmannino@comcast.net]=20
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:51 PM
To: oleg-i@noos.fr; Pianotech
Subject: RE: ABS Parts and Objectivity of Posting
=20
Isaac,
You are entitled to your opinions, but really, what you state is really
a lot of crazy talk. Perhaps this is partially caused by your having to
post to this list in your second language - it is understandable that
your writing would not be as clear and carefully phrased as it should
be.
Those who have been to my seminars know that I do not hold back in
criticizing Kawai pianos in those areas where I am aware of faults. If
I knew of the problems you have described, I would not bother to write
and argue against them - that is not my way, and I value my personal
integrity too much to do so.
That said, the problems you have described regarding bushings and ABS
parts having sharp edges do not make sense, and in my 8 years as
technical support manager for Kawai in North America not once have I
ever heard of or experienced myself any sharp edges or burrs on ABS
repetition levers. These are the kinds of non-factually based
criticisms that usually come from those who work with competing
dealerships, or for one reason or another are predisposed to dislike
this brand of pianos.
I have observed that Isaac continually brings up ABS in discussions
which are not related to the topic. It would seem that this is an
effort on his part to:
a. Discredit Kawai in general
b. Draw me into an argument
c. Tout his technical superiority over the rest of the world's
technicians
The original topic of the thread was about Kawai's new adjustable touch
action in upright pianos, and Isaac launches into an epistle of
diatribes against Kawai. He never gives indication with his signature
stating why he might be biased against Kawai, but the content is very
consistent. Why is this?
In reading many of Isaac's posts, letter C (above) seems to be the most
common goal, and as such I usually don't feel the posts are worth
responding to. In this case, letter A seems to be more the purpose, so
I felt I should respond.
With this preamble completed, I would like to comment specifically on of
Isaac's Kawai-bashing statements:
"defects due to the molding process leaving sharp edges at the roller
window"
Wood parts regularly have milling defects at the jack window. On brand
new Renner and Steinway parts I have had to scrape this edge with a
razor knife (a much better solution than sanding, by the way) to
eliminate artifacts of the milling process. I have never, in the
literally tens of thousands of ABS parts I have worked on, seen any
burrs or sharp edges here. If Isaac really did find some kind of
molding artifact in a repetition lever, this would be a very rare and
surprising item - it should be treated as a fluke, repaired, and not
turned into an argument against ABS parts.
"I stand my point that Kawai never understood piano touch enough they
have always been a tad unresponsive that is frustrating for players and
techs as the instruments could be more musical if so."
For one who apparently has no knowledge of the Kawai R&D department, and
seems to not be aware of the very common selection of Kawai pianos by
competitors at piano competitions, this statement of Isaac's shows only
ignorance. Isaac, have you ever met one of Kawai's concert technicians
who supposedly (in your terms) do not understand piano touch? These are
the people who finish off the EX concert grands and the Shigeru Kawai
pianos. Every one of them spent 2 years in Europe during their
training, and I am very confident that their r=E9sum=E9s would embarrass
most piano tuners in the world. They work intimately with the highest
caliber of pianists and with Kawai's rather extensive R&D department,
and to say that Kawai doesn't understand proper piano touch really is a
personal insult to these very fine technicians.
As to the results of Kawai's labors, we regularly survey buyers and
potential buyers of the Shigeru Kawai pianos, and the following are the
most common types of comments about these pianos:
"Wonderful singing tone, very expressive"
"Incredibly sensitive action, it will do anything I ask of it."
Now I know that these kinds of solicited comments are not to be taken
overly seriously, but my point is that we do not get complaints that the
Shigeru Kawai actions are unresponsive.=20
"as soon as you install better front punching"
Here you are throwing another arcane and unclear criticism in without
being concise. Kawai knows exactly what it is doing with the front
punching firmness - as a classical pianist myself, I very strongly
dislike the feeling of overly hard front punchings. Here you are simply
stating a personal preference as a fact of inferiority. If you do not
like Kawai's punching hardness, can you conceive of the concept that
others do like them? Even others of excellent ability, skill and
knowledge?
Here, I will restate this in your style of writing: Hard front rail
punchings are a definite sign of inferiority in the piano and should be
changed to a higher quality, more forgiving cloth. The thumpy,
unforgiving end to the keystroke makes the piano tone percussive,
weakens projection, and damages the tendons of the pianist over time.
Any technician who prefers hard punchings needs to change careers, as he
or she is obviously not sensitive to musicality in the instrument.
{To all other readers besides our Gallic fiend please note - the above
paragraph was parody, not my actual opinion! ;-) }
"It can be a psychological impression, but as yet those action with
aluminum rails have something in the tone I don't like the most"
I can unequivocally confirm to you, this is a psychological problem.
The Kawai rail has been extremely well researched and designed, with a
combination of very strong vertical beams, serrated surface with rubber
strip to assist with stable part spacing and alignment, and a wood
letoff button rail inserted underneath. =20
I can tell you, though, there are some definite 'advantages' of a wood
rail over Kawai's aluminum rail:
1. Much more energy is lost in fortissimo playing with wood rails due to
flex and vibration, especially in the bass area. This has the benefit
of keeping the piano from being too loud, and keeps some of the
pianist's energy from making loud noises and offending any nearby
listeners.
2. When the wood vibrates in reaction to the hammer striking the string,
there is a pleasing "knock" added to the tone of the piano.
3. Action parts to not stay screwed down tight nearly as long in wood
rails. This provides the piano technicians with a stable source of
income.
4. Sandpaper on top of the wood rail enhances the quality of tone,
giving it that gritty, papery quality we all love. Any technician who
cannot hear this is most assuredly in the wrong business - it is
obvious! ;-)
"I am unsure it is really the case, Kawai is not synonym of very good
cloth and felts to
me, for some reason (see the Boston hammers)"
And you should remain unsure, dear fiend, as this is another bunch of
nonsense.
Let me first say that Boston pianos are made to Steinway Specifications,
and any criticisms of those instruments should be aimed at Steinway. If
Steinway wanted the factory in Japan to change the hammer felts, then
Kawai would do so.
There is no company making pianos today who does not occasionally have a
piano needing service to the action centers, Kawai included. Making
reliable, firm action centers is one of the most difficult parts of
piano making. The parts must work in tropical climates as well as
arctic ones, and the manufacturer must try to fit the pins in the
bushing for the widest level of reliability. This means that the tone
under dry conditions will not be ideal, as the pins will be on the edge
of being too loose. This need to fit the action centers for reliable
operation in all climates is not a reflection of cloth quality or the
surrounding material, as the requirement holds just as true for Kawai
grand hammer shanks (wood material) as it does for our wippen flanges
(ABS). In other words, the behavior of the different action centers
within the exact same piano in the exact same conditions with the same
cloth and different surrounding materials (wood vs ABS) is essentially
the same. There is no better evidence than this of the fallacy of this
old argument regarding wood parts giving a better fit with the bushing
and pin.
I would encourage everyone to take note of Yamaha's grand hammer
flanges, in which they apply a cross lamination to the wood were the
bushings are glued in. Guess what? This stabilizes the wood, reducing
the potential for the hole to change shape from humidity changes. Kind
of like plastic, hmm?
I should say that I am also guilty of this same argument in the past. I
once stated in my seminar on action centers that the wood parts must
give a more consistent fit, but after testing the idea carefully and
actually working with direct comparisons of wood and ABS parts, I found
that I was wrong. Perhaps Isaac will someday learn his error as well.
"(and I really hear the plastic "thump" of the damper levers as
something not in its place in a piano)."
It is amazing to me how a lack of understanding makes people say such
wrong things. If we made an ABS soundboard, everyone would rightly
criticize it for being dead, not making any tone. ABS is a very inert,
quiet material which dissipates vibrational energy. It cannot possibly
add to the thump of the dampers! But inexperienced people hear a noise
in a piano, and instead of investigating the cause of the noise they see
the ABS and say - "Ah, that's it - cheap plastic" or something similar.
I used to keep track of the number of 'tooners' who would call me at
Kawai and say something like "This action is clicking because of the
plastic parts - you know, Steinway had this same problem with plastic
(Teflon) bushings and they stopped making them!" When I heard this I
would add another hatch mark to a certain notebook cover, and patiently
explain yet again that these actions have normal cloth bushings of a
very high quality, and the technician might want to check again for the
source of the noise. Usually we end up having to send another
technician out, and it is never in the bushings or the ABS - the most
common cause would be that the hammer heads had come loose on the shanks
because of dryness. The original technician gets the piano owner upset
over nothing, and in the end looks like a jackass to all.
"I also noticed it can be noisy , may be the rollers are artificial
leather also (most probably) as for Yamaha, and that makes too much
synthetic on synthetic contact paths ? Yamaha rollers and backchecks are
very good for one - and they are not leather so not all synthetic parts
are equal."
Yamaha and Kawai (and some other piano makers) buy the artificial
buckskin from the same supplier in Japan. The advantages are that it
has much better cushioning to reduce action noise, and it is very, very
consistent in thickness, firmness, and elasticity. Very fine buckskin
is more resistant to squeaking noises, but otherwise has a lot of
drawbacks. This comment that it doesn't happen in Yamaha pianos may
mean that some kind of Yamaha angels have prevented Isaac from
experiencing it, but I have personally had to apply Teflon powder to
Yamaha knuckles (as well as Young Chang and others) to stop the same
noise. I recently serviced a very nice Hamburg Steinway B which was
squeaking and groaning very badly here. No matter what the materials,
knuckles (rollers) can squeak, and Teflon powder usually solves it.
By the way, a very common source of squeaks in any knuckle material is
human skin oil, from people rubbing them with their fingers. =20
As to the allusion that ABS wippens are a little too heavy, this is a
valid criticism - although one which produced complaints almost
exclusively from dealers who sell competing products. Although the
Kawai action was engineered to perform well with this slight extra mass
in the wippen, Kawai is just now introducing a new carbon strengthened
ABS action, which allows us to bring the mass in the wippen assembly
down. This new action is going to make a bit of a stir in the piano
market, I think.
There is nothing anyone can do to stop someone from posting all sorts of
nonsensical opinions on this mail list. I generally don't respond - I
have learned that it doesn't pay to roll in the mud with pigs, because
they like it too much! In this case I have tried to at least slop out
the pig sty a little, but am now going to depart for a quick shower.
Don Mannino RPT
Kawai America
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