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My first apprenticeship, in fall 1970 in San Francisco, working for Dana
Huff, proprietor of the Tip-Top Piano Shop on Valencia Street ... once he
was satisfied with my tuning, Dana would send me out to do some of the
tunings that came to him ... "Charge them $17.50 and give me $5" ...
jason kanter
-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On
Behalf Of David Ilvedson
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 7:02 PM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: Re: working with ETD's versus..... no more really...
Fascinating post Andre....
It might interest you to know that when I got of WIT in 1974 and went home
to Minot, North Dakota. I was charging the highest fee of $20 a tuning
amongst my competition.
David Ilvedson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Original message
From: antares
To: Pianotech
Received: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 12:43:25 +0100
Subject: Re: working with ETD's versus..... no more really...
On 6-feb-05, at 3:54, David Andersen wrote:
If one insists that an aural tuning is better, so be it, I prefer to
say that
some aural tuners, probably like David Andersen, are really fantastic
tuners,
but that it takes a whole lot of energy and stress to produce 5 of
those
tunings a day.
Working with a near perfect ETD is far less stressful and costs far
less
energy.
Again, the unisons are, in my opinion, more important, and so is the
voicing.
See, I choose for an economical use of my time with a maximum result.
friendly greetings
from
ANDRÉ OOREBEEK
Absolutely. Agree 100%. If I was tuning 5 pianos a day, I would
definitely
look at the Verituner. By the grace of God, I don't have to do that
these
days; just 2 or at the most 3 pianos a day, with other interesting work
thrown in.
Alright, I 've been thinking about dizz.....
I don't think that there is an ongoing war between ETD'ers and Aural'ers.
The time has past and is gone, where older aural tuners scorned
technicians with sophisticated equipment.
I think I am right when I say that we -mostly- all agree that only the
very best ETD's can easily match the very best tunings made by aural tuners.
If one does not and can not agree with this, then I consider this
otherwise highly interesting and informative discussion one sided and
invalid. I do not that think - I - would spend more time on this issue,
because 1. all my critical customers are extremely satisfied with my ETD
tuning and 2. for me personally it is out of the question to start all over
again with aural tuning, especially so because I have had it and I have done
that for the greater part of my professional life.
Again, I wish to bring forward here, that I would insist that any tuning
student should learn to tune aurally and then tune at least 10 000 pianos
without even looking at an ETD.
If that tuner then chooses to keep on tuning aurally, or chooses to buy an
ETD..... fine, does it matter? are we at least trying a create a free
society, or what?
Which brings me to the fact that you David (Andersen) have the choice of
tuning no more than 2 or at the most 3 pianos.
I think it could be enlightening to some here, that there is something
else in play here :
There are some huge differences between the USA and at least the
Netherlands (and other European countries).
What differences am I talking about?
1. there is the fact that the tuners/technicians here in Holland are
divided in two groups :
Those who are self employed, and those who work for a piano store.
Most of the tuners/technicians work for a piano store and have a regular
income with obligatory health insurance and reasonable pension plans.
Their income can never be fantastic because their employer needs to make
money too.
Way in the past, like in the 19th and first halve of the 20th century,
those employed in a piano store, were living in Dickensian conditions. They
were forced to work 6 days a week, had maybe just a few days a year vacation
(or never), made very long days and were forced to tune at the least 7
pianos every day (outside the store).
We know those stories.
That changed in the second halve of the 20th century, after WW-II.
Socialistic ideas were very strong then and one began to form unions. This
happened all over the World, except in fascist countries in general, or in
places where people were (and still are) brutalized and forced to stay poor
for ever (like in some African countries where greed and the most stupefying
selfishness prevails in the upper warrior clans).
The profession of the Dutch piano tuners was placed under the wings of the
"Metal Union" and every year, a small delegation of representatives was sent
to the Hague, the political centre in Holland, to negotiate improving
conditions for their piano tuner/technician members.
When I entered the 'market' in the early seventies, I began to work for a
big piano store in Amsterdam, and, immediately was told to start training
hard because it was customary (still) that the tuners did 7 tunings a day (I
have told this here before, but repeat i to illustrate the working
conditions here).
At the same time, tuning a piano then cost about 15,00 US $ ! in the early
seventies!
Tuning a piano was considered a low tech kind of work, and if one said
that his (female tuners did not yet exist then) daily work consisted of
tuning pianos, most people would start to laugh or giggle. They considered
it a funny profession, haha.
No wonder wages were very low, and conditions in general were so so for
the piano tuners.
No wonder too, that at a certain moment, more and more tuners left their
erstwhile employers, and started a business for themselves.
Those, who took that step, did not have an easy time either. Health
insurance and pension plans were, and are, very expensive, and, above all,
the Dutch Government always has squeezed every single soul to the innermost
bones, to get to the last excess marrow.
sob sob...
With this background in mind, it is perhaps more easy to understand that
the price development (in general) has taken only a very slow rise over the
last 6 decades.
Only 5 years ago, tuning a piano cost something like US $ 55,- to 60,-
The introduction of the Euro has put the cost of living on its head. All
prices jumped with at least 30 to 50 % and in some cases, the European
currency in general, just doubled, just like that. (don't ask me why and
how).
This price may seem not so bad compared to you Americans
Most piano stores now ask around 75 to 80 US $ (This price may seem not so
bad compared to you Americans, but the comparison between the US and
European currency has lost its reality, due to the inevitable slow sinking
away of the US dollar, thanks to your President), but it is actually still
too low, because the costs of a car are included and the cost of living has
almost doubled here.
The heritage of tuning so many piano's per day, has come to around 30
piano's a week, through the influence of the Piano union. That means that
every piano tuner who is not self employed has to tune 6 pianos a day, like
it or not.
Wages are still so so, but the obligatory health and pension plan is ok.
Those who are self employed, aim for at least 5 pianos a day, because
their costs are high (car, pension, health plan, taxes) but at least their
wages are not skimmed of by a so called boss, hrmpf.
They make more hours, sometimes 10 to 12 hours a day, including driving,
calling customers, and administration, but they have one huge advantage over
the employed ones : they are free, and if they choose to go to Antarctica
tomorrow, they can do that.
Maybe this long explanation of the Dutch piano tuner in general, will make
you understand that
1. Dutch tuners were always forced to tune an awful lot of pianos a day
(myself included),
2. always tried to make an extra buck for themselves either in the evening
or in weekends,
3. Were, and are, therefor prone to early wear and tear of their bodies,
4. Are for those above reasons, more than ready to make a new start with a
nice and relaxing ETD.
I am certainly not in the lowest ranks of the tuner world here. I charge
my customers 70 Euros which is 90 US Dollars.
However, I am able to tune any more pianos than 2 a day otherwise my poor
left hand will hurt more.
So I try to earn my living mostly with technical work, like regulating and
voicing. That is all very nice, but the level of my clientele is not of the
same level you may have in the chintzy parts of LA. I know LA pretty well,
you can definitely not compare it with Amsterdam, or Holland for that
matter.
There is a lot of wealth there and incredible amount of incredibly rich
people. There is no Bel Air, Hollywood, or Beverly Hills here.
It is so different David.
I hope that anybody, reading this, understands better my arguments why, I
in the first place, and many others here, were more than ready for a sleek
machine. Too much repetitive work, too many chinese equal temperament
puzzles every day till your 65th birthday. It is killing.
I consider myself lucky, to be able my beautiful work, so I am not
complaining.
It is just that we have a completely different background.
Sometimes it is interesting and also enlightening to better understand how
other live, especially on this list, which counts a number of techs who are
living in other places in the World.
And maybe I just THINK I do fantastic tunings; it could be all in
my head; perhaps I'm just a big blowhard who's got everybody fooled.
I hope to find out someday soon?, and I am looking forward to that moment.
I have already been able to check on the skills of my friend Ricardo in
wet and freezing Norway.
Let me tell y'all that he too is one of the best I so far have
encountered.
Keep that in mind when he pokes around this list, hehehehe...
My affection and respect to you, Master Oorebeek.
David A.
Likewise, and may da foice be witha ya *(; > O <:)*
friendly greetings
from
ANDRÉ OOREBEEK
Where 'music' is no harm can be
www.concertpianoservice.nl
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