----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk> To: "Richard Brekne" <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Re voicing hammers/hardening > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Brekne" <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Cc: "Michael Gamble" <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>; "antares" > <antares@euronet.nl> > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:56 PM > Subject: Re: Re voicing hammers/hardening > > > Hi Michael. > > Hello Ric > >>5 mm is really quite a long ways away for setoff (letoff). > > Actually, now I look at a measuring ruler with mm on it, it is more like > 2.5mm - I think in inches so it's about 1/8". > >> By the sounds of it the whole piano is in trouble so I am not really sure >> what to tell you... grin... I am tempted to suggest thumbtacks... no no >> no no.. I didnt say that ! > > You may not have said that, Rik, but I thought it!!!:-) > > Thanks for your "input" Ric > > Michael G.(UK) > > Michael Gamble wrote: > >> Hello Rik & Andre and List >> I am trying to establish the fastest method of hardening the hammers of >> this old upright German "Katz" which is used on stage in "Bartered >> Bride". Right now we are still in rehearsal and it is very soft sounding. >> I have regulated the touch and the set-off to bring the hammers within >> about 5mm from the strings - which is pushing my luck somewhat as a lot >> of the butt springs are broken! Even so it is very soft-sounding. At the >> moment we are countering this to a degree by removing the front panel and >> kneeboard. Fortunately there's a music desk on the fall. I have the >> following potions :-) Apsco #425 Hammer Felt Reinforcer (that'll take >> you back a few years?). Very pungent smell. I also have a small can of >> Humbrol Nitrate Cellulose Dope - this is usually used to taughten the >> paper tissue skin applied to model aircraft. (great fun!) The Apsco stuff >> can, I believe, be thinned down using Acetone (nail varnish remover - >> more smelly stuff!) as required. Given the scenario and with the action >> on its front (hammers "up") what, in your opinion is the best, fastest >> and most effective way to harden those hammers? :-) >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "antares" <antares@euronet.nl> >> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> >> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:18 PM >> Subject: Re: Re voicing hammers >> >> >>> >>> On 15-mei-05, at 13:14, Ric Brekne wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Andre >>>> >>>> My own choice is cellulose lacquer. Its one of the softest, and >>>> springiest lacquers available. It always struck me that if one first >>>> was too use lacquer, then a lacqure with its own kind of resiliency was >>>> a sensible choice. Dries fast, results show themselves in about an hour >>>> and cures completely in a day or two (at least in the amounts used in >>>> hammer dopping). >>> >>> >>> >>> Sure, that's why I had no negative opinion about it, other than the fact >>> that it dries up fast and is therefor a little harder to carry around. >>> >>>> >>>> 'some technician' - has observed that lacquers and other hardning >>>> agents tend to coat the fibers of hammer felt making them brittle and >>>> essentially destroying their resilent capabitlites. So a chemical that >>>> simply causes the fibers to tension up a bit...(shrinking) without any >>>> other affect would perhaps be the ideal. Havent tried any such thing >>>> yet... shying from chemicals as I do, tho I have bumped into a bit of >>>> reading on the subject. >>> >>> >>> All hardeners clot the wool fibers up to a degree. that's why they are >>> called hardeners. >>> I am against them on principle except for the outer extremities of the >>> keyboard i.e. the highest notes and the lowest notes. >>> >>>> >>>> As for collodium .... grin... you are wrong about its primary benifit >>>> Andre ! In reality that is its ability to make all future use of mind >>>> expanding drugs totally redundant !! :) >>> >>> >>> >>> Ah but I like collodium because it does show a result after 1 hr and >>> especially for the fact that it is easy to carry around. If I want to >>> get high, that makes it all the more attractive as well ... *((: >))) >>> la-la-la-la-la.... >>> >>>> >>>> Oh.... and Terry... yep.. some folks are out there hardening Yamaha >>>> hammers. Usually because they have been devastated by softening >>>> agents, over steamed, or just plain needled to death. Strikes me that >>>> in spite of all the ingenious alternative methods our American allies >>>> have for doing things differently... too many over there have >>>> forgotten, put aside, or otherwise ignored developing and maintaining >>>> needling skills. No reflection on those who can mind you. One striking >>>> difference between voicing problems one runs into here in Europe visa >>>> vi those in America (based on personal experience) is that in America >>>> you find tons of cases of hammers mauled one way or the other by the >>>> uninitiated tech. Where as in Europe... the vast majority of voicing >>>> problems have their basis simply from a lack of voicing maintainance >>>> done. >>> >>> >>> And in the case of Quentins remark about hammer dope used on Yamaha's : >>> He indeed means applying some hardener on hammers belonging to a >>> CFIII-S, the concert grand which has ..... Wurzen felt. >>> usually the lowest and highest Wurzen hammers could use some extra >>> 'spritz', that's the price for less needling and easier needling. >>> >>> greets >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> RicB >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andre writes: >>>> >>>> /My "weapon of choice" is collodium (or collodion) because it is a >>>> natural hardener, mixed with alcohol and ether. >>>> >>>> The ether smells badly for a short time, but the advantage of this is >>>> that it is easy to apply (with a pipette), easy to take along (in a >>>> small glass bottle) as a standard tool case item for the traveling >>>> technician, it will stay the way it is (it does not harden out but >>>> stays liquid), after 1 hour we get a result and after 1 day the >>>> stuff has done its work completely/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>> >>>> >>> friendly greetings >>> from >>> André Oorebeek >>> >>> www.concertpianoservice.nl >>> >>> "Where music is no harm can be" >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >
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