Hi everyone...food for thought.
I did a Church piano last fall...and asked their pianist/choir director to call me and let me know how he liked the tuning...second time I've done this...couple weeks went by...nothing. Waited another week to see if I got a check...nothing. Finally called the Minister and spoke with him...everyone happy. He said I have your invoice in front of me...and I asked him for the money...three days later I got my check. Slow paying...yes. Second time I've done this too...also had somewhat of a prob the first go-round. BUT...I also told him the piano should be tuned twice a year (instead of just once a year as I had done it)...he agreed and I have to call back early in June. My point is though...I now have a semi annual tuning...but seemingly have to chase my money down. Is it worth it? One of the pains of the biz I guess...but at least I have yet another semi-annual tuning.
Chasing money...I think we all do it...and some of the perhaps..."least likely" customers turn out to be the greatest offenders (sic!).
Just my 2 cents today...
Marc P. Mailhot
Marco Polo Music
Westbrook, Maine USA
The Love You Take is Equal to the Love You Make...
The Beatles/Abbey Road (The End)...1969
--- On Fri, 3/6/09, pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org> wrote:
From: pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org>
Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 5, Issue 71
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 3:09 PM
Send pianotech mailing list submissions to
pianotech at ptg.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
pianotech-request at ptg.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
pianotech-owner at ptg.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: slow paying customers revisited (Shawn Brock)
2. Re: OT vacuum press/vacuum clamping system (Shawn Brock)
Patrick,
I'm with you 100 percent and some how I have kept myself under control when I have called these people. I try not to call to often. Usually after 2 calls each placed a week apart,, and after the payment has been 10 days or more over due they seem to respond an pay up. If I had a lot of time on my hands I would probably consider taking them to small claims, just to get the point across. How ever I don't have the time or that much longing for revenge. I do think that if I didn't make the past due calls that I probably wouldn't get paid though. I let an invoice go until it was 43 days over due with one of the churches just to see when or if they would pay up. After 43 days I had enough though and called to remind them. So... I guess we will see what happens this time. I am going to stick to what I said about the price change though. If they don't like it they can always get someone different to tune for them.
Regards,
Shawn Brock, RPT
----- Original Message -----
From: J Patrick Draine
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited
James,
While I don't agree with the notion that any particular "$XXX is overpriced" statement makes a lot of sense, given the many variables of current economic conditions, geographic and cost of living variables, expertise, etc. -- your suggestion that "Too much price fluctuation confuses clients" hits the target bullseye.
I do not offer institutional discounts; payment within 30 days is great but can't be depended upon.
Punitive pricing -- "you're always late with the check" -- doesn't go over very well.
Shawn, If the client is running past that, one can make a practice of "keeping in touch" with the responsible parties and casually remind them that you haven't yet received payment, but you don't want to project too much nervous irritated energy at your client.
But hey, this is indeed an appropriate place to "blow off some steam" when these things happen.
Patrick Draine
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Pianoman <pianoman at accessus.net> wrote:
$120 seems over priced. Are you going to price your self out of a job? Too much price fluctuation confuses clients.
James
James Grebe
Since 1962
Piano Tuning & Repair
Creator of Handsome Hardwood Products(
314) 608-4137 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010
Researcher of St. Louis Theatre History
BECOME WHAT YOU BELIEVE!
www.grebepiano.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Magness" <IFixPianos at yahoo.com>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Shawn Brock <shawnbrock at fuse.net> wrote:
Thanks to everyone who responded to my ramblings. I am combining your
thoughts for my solution. I have decided that I will stop giving the
multiple piano discount to each of these churches. I was charging $110 for
the first tuning and $100 for each tuning after that. I know $10 don't seem
like much of a discount, but sense they each have 5 pianos I was taking $40
off the bill and to me that's a decent discount... So that's the first
thing I'm going to do. My next solution is to charge $120 per tuning if I'm
not going to be paid on the date that services are rendered. I understand
that some large churches do have to jump through hoops to get a check out to
a contractor but these people are just taking advantage of me. In each of
the 2 churches the music director makes the appointment and he also has the
ability to sign a check. In addition to this fact keep in mind each time I
have turned in my invoice to the music director. I always get the same
words from each of these guys, "I'll have this in the mail to you in a day
or two." The day or two always turns into more than thirty days. Some
times it has been 2 months! To me that's just B-S and making more on the
job or not performing the work is the only way it can be handled.
Thanks again,
Shawn Brock RPT
----- Original Message -----
*From:* wimblees at aol.com
*To:* pianotech at ptg.org
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:09 PM
*Subject:* Re: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited
Shawn.
With a big church, it usually not just one or two people who are involved
in getting bills paid. Bills have to be approved the appropriate person,
(choir director), then sent to the finance committee, which meets once a
month, then the accountant, who approves the disbursement, and then finally
to the person who actually writes the check. Once the check has been
printed, it needs to be signed by the accountant, or treasurer, and maybe
even counter signed. All that takes time, and, as you indicated, if any one
of those people are sick or out of town, it further delays the process.
Two suggestions. One, talk to the choir director, or music chairman, tell
him/her your concern, and ask for his/her recommendation on how to get paid
faster.
Two, Put on the bill that if it is paid within 14/30 day, they will get a
10% discount. Or the other way around, say that interest at 18% will be
added to bill if it is paid after 30 days. If they don't pay the extra, add
it to the next bill. You can either itemize the bill, and put on it,
"balance carried forward", or if you give them a discount for multiple
pianos, don't give them the discount the next time you tune for them.
As far as last minute tunings, add 25% to the tuning bill for "emergency
service." They will either remember to call you sooner, or you'll get paid
extra for going out of your way.
Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT
Piano Tuner/Technician
Mililani, Oahu, HI
808-349-2943
Author of:
The Business of Piano Tuning
available from Potter Press
www.pianotuning.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Brock <shawnbrock at fuse.net>
To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 4:28 am
Subject: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited
List,
I know we had a thread going not long ago on slow paying customers and last
year I had complained a little about some of the churches I serve. I have
some
questions that I would like to gather some answers for and some statements
that may or may not be out of line (you tell me.) First: how long do you
give
commercial/institutional/church customers to pay the balance for your
services? For most of these types of account I have been giving 14 days
from the
date of service to the date of payment due. That seems more than
reasonable to me, after all the phone company and other utilities don't give
you that
much time from when you receive the bill to the due date. Perhaps I'm
being unreasonable though? I have 2 churches that are my slowest paying
customers,
and they are maybe the richest churches I work for. Each has 5 pianos that
get regular service and both are slow paying. Its funny... It seems that
the people with the least amount of money are the first to pay, I find that
those folks are the ones who have a check waiting on the date of the
appointment...
So back to the topic at hand. I had cut the slow payers back to a 10 day
due date or a "payment due on date of service" instead of the 14 days I had
been giving them. That hasn't seemed
to help! Each time I work for them it never fails that I have to make
numerous phone calls to get my money. They both have a long list of excuses
that
they run through (the accountant is on vacation, the accountant is sick, we
misplaced the invoice, we thought we had 30 days, a check should have been
in the mail to you, I will have to check with someone and get back with
you) and so on. I could have understood this once or even more, but this is
every time I deal with these people and I'm sick of it! These 2 churches
were served in a 2 day period and now they are both past due by more than a
week. I wouldn't be as quick to complain but we are talking over $1000 that
is due to me and I could use it. Last I checked I still have bills to pay.
So what's the answer? Maybe I should charge more and give them a discount
if they pay on time? Or is that to complicated? Maybe I should just stop
working for them? Damn! I'm sorry but when it takes people more than 30
days to pay that seems a little excessive to me. Its not like these people
even have to pay taxes... One thing that fuels my fire is these are the
same people who will call you and want you to come out to tune for a concert
the same day, or the next day. They new about the concert months ago but
didn't have the foresight to schedule the tuning. And then... They show
you gratitude by paying in a month and a half! "We need you now and we will
pay you when ever we want." Well, that's how it seems any how. Come on
people and share your wisdom with me. I could use it... After all we are
not just talking about $1000 which is in my opinion still a substantial
amount of money. We are talking about 2 days worth of work and we are also
talking about principles. If they couldn't afford to pay it would be
different but at a glance you know that you are just getting kicked around.
All comments and ideas are appreciated.
Regards,
Shawn Brock, RPT
------------------------------
*A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62>
*
I solved this years ago, I thought by printing on my invoices that 1&1/2%
interest begins after 30 days and continues monthly until paid.
Last year I collected on a 3 tuning job along with a year's interest!! I
guess I didn't solve it after all.
Schools just ignore it entirely and pay when they get around to it. Most
others are reasonably timely and I've grown more patient over the years,
deciding to consider checks that finally arrive in my mailbox as "found"
money! (grin)
Mike
--
I intend to live forever. So far, so good.
Steven Wright
Michael Magness
Magness Piano Service
608-786-4404
www.IFixPianos.com
email mike at ifixpianos.com
Mike,
thanks for the info. I'm going over to join up! Thanks for the pics as
well. I get the point about the frame and know of one fellow who uses that
system. On the other hand I know of another guy who uses a bag, so I guess
the best thing to do is inquire to the fellows on mimf. Thanks again. Are
you into musical instrument making?
Best,
Shawn Brock, RPT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Spalding" <mike.spalding1 at verizon.net>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] OT vacuum press/vacuum clamping system
> Shawn,
>
> For what you are doing, I think you'd be better off with a frame as
> opposed to a bag. Pictures attached, hopefully self-explanatory.
> Seriously, check out the Musical Instrument Makers Forum at mimf.com,
> the participants are just as friendly and helpful as the folks here,
> plus they have a wealth of specialized guitar-making knowledge.
>
> Mike
>
> Shawn Brock wrote:
>> Terry,
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I'm glad someone knows something about these
>> things. I have never even looked at one of these before and don't
>> know squat... I don't
>> know that I need a large pump because of the nature of the work. I
>> would just be using it to press tops and or backs of guitars. One
>> wood working outfit in town has one that has a 14 by 49 bag and comes
>> with some sort of hand pump. Like I stated earlier though the
>> dimensions of the bag don't work for me and I don't know what
to
>> expect from a hand pump system. I'm sure I wouldn't need a
pump with
>> massive power but the hand pump might be a little wimpy. Do you have
>> any thoughts on this? Basically what I would like to do is take the
>> soundboard, glue on a layer of nomex and press it. After that I would
>> thin down the soundboard from about 3/4mm to 2mm, glue another board
>> on putting the nomex in-between like a sandwich and press again. It
>> seems easy enough, its just figuring out what kind of equipment would
>> work the best.
>> Regards,
>> Shawn Brock, RPT
>> Block quote start
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Farrell <mailto:mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com>
>> *To:* pianotech at ptg.org <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:35 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] OT vacuum press/vacuum clamping system
>>
>> Hi Shawn,
>>
>> Vacuum pressing is enough of a specialty area that I really
don't
>> think you'll find much on the street. There's really only
a few
>> places that sell that stuff. You really need to go on-line to find
>> what works for you.
>>
>> I use vacuum pressing for building laminated soundboard panels,
>> rib sets and gluing just about any large flat/cured panel to
>> another. Basically all you need is a vacuum pump and a plastic
>> bag. I have my bags custom made at
>> http://www.vacupress.com/pricing.htm (scroll about half way down
>> for their bags - they also make custom sizes). I also buy my
>> adhesive from them http://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm . I
>> bought my vacuum pump from these folks - the CD100
>> http://www.vac-u-clamp.com/products/basic-pumps/index.htm -
it's a
>> real workhorse and all you need.
>>
>> I'm happy to share tons more info on tips, techniques,
equipment,
>> etc. - just ask away.
>>
>> Terry Farrell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Shawn Brock <mailto:shawnbrock at fuse.net>
>> *To:* Pianotech List <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:26 AM
>> *Subject:* [pianotech] OT vacuum press/vacuum clamping system
>>
>> List,
>>
>> do any of you have experience with the use of a vacuum
>> press/clamping system? I am in the market for this product
>> but am having a hard time finding someone who sells it in the
>> Cincinnati area. More accurately, I'm having a hard time
>> finding someone who knows if they stock them. You know how it
>> goes... Maybe they have it and don't know if they do but
they
>> assume they don't because you want it... I am going to
get
>> back to my old hobby of building guitars so I need a system
>> that will handle something 15 wide and maybe 22 long. I found
>> one that has a capacity of 14 wide and 47 long but those folks
>> tell me they can't order anything bigger. I would rather
shop
>> for one in store than online so I can grope the product in
>> person. I'm not trying to hide my ignorance on vacuum
>> press's, I don't know hardly anything about them so...
I am
>> planning to build either a double top guitar with a nomex core
>> or a lattice braced top using balsa wood and carbon fiber. If
>> you haven't got a chance to hear classical guitars built
in
>> this modern fashion you should check them out. The volume is
>> tremendous! You can't even compare them to traditional
>> construction as far as volume goes. The tone is another
>> matter though. You can check out my page on myspace to hear
>> traditional Spanish construction next to this new sound
>> offered by these guitars. I have 4 songs posted at this time
>> and I used 3 different guitars. Fields of Gold uses a
>> traditional Classical Spanish made guitar with Spruce top, The
>> Call is a lattice top guitar and New Moon and Golpe were
>> played on a Spanish Flamenco guitar with a Seder top. I
>> wonder if any of these new ideas could become useful in
>> piano soundboard construction?
>> www.myspace.com/shawnbrockmusic
>> <http://www.myspace.com/shawnbrockmusic>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Shawn Brock, RPT
>>
>
_______________________________________________
pianotech mailing list
pianotech at ptg.org
http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090306/4eea2e44/attachment-0001.html>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC