Hi John, After doing it Ron's way (2 passes) for several years now I can't see any sense in doing it any other way. It's dang near foolproof. The first pass is a cheap jobbers bit, and the second pass is hardly any friction because you're removing very little wood. Speed isn't an issue. "Burning the hole" - not an issue. Ron says it's an old machinists trick that's been used for years. Some people seem to just need to do things the way they have always done them. I know people who still use a typewriter instead of a computer/word processor. Works for them, so why change? And maybe people like the thrill of drilling at just the right speed and exact feed rate knowing that if they don't get it just right the pinblock will have permanent problems. <G> Jim ________________________________ From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of John Ross [jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca] Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:02 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning Pin Replacement AFTER CA Glue One thing to note on the drilling. The speed used is critical. I can't remember what happens. But, too fast is one way, and too slow is the other way, either tight or loose. So the drill bit might have been the right size. It always pays to do some test drillings. I like Ron's idea of two passes, which would possibly do away with the too fast or too slow scenario. Hopefully someone will elaborate. John Ross Windsor, Nova Scotia. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Milesi<mailto:paul at pmpiano.com> To: PTG Pianotech List<mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning Pin Replacement AFTER CA Glue Thanks, Wim. I appreciate your input. There are a couple of reasons I think it’s a new block, but of course there’s a chance I’m wrong (too many assumptions?): Assumption #1: The piano clearly has had major work done to it, including soundboard shimming and re-stringing, and I guess it’s hard for me to imagine that someone went to all that trouble and didn’t install a new block, especially knowing the piano dates from 1961 (they ought to have known that as well). Of course, the work doesn’t look like it was all done properly, so assuming anyone doing the job would most likely have installed a new block could be a bad assumption? Assumption #2: When I compare the front edge of the pinblock visible just under the stretcher to other 1961 Baldwin Ls at the school, they’re different. On the others, the beveled edge is painted black. On the piano in question, although beveled, it’s not black, and I can see the bottom 3-4 thin laminate layers of the block, which looks “new.” This and what I can see of the underside and side edges leads me to think it’s a replacement. Assumption #3: I’m thinking whoever drilled the block perhaps didn’t drill properly, or used wrong sized bit, causing loose pins even when first done. Also, I have no idea why they left the pins so high: several threads showing on many, many pins -- not down in the plate, but well above it! Assumption #4: I’m assuming someone else, later, came along and drove the couple sections of pins down that have their coils just above the plate. Then, since that didn’t increase the torque enough, they used CA glue. Since driving didn’t seem to work for someone else before, and many pins are already close to the plate, that’s why I’m thinking re-pin. Bottom line, driving the remaining pins won’t let me fix those that are already driven as far as practicable. Yes, I know what they say about the word “assume.” :) I guess I prefer to think I’m making “educated guesses.” :) Believe me, I know a new block is the best solution to my tuning dilemma here, but it’s not going to happen now, or for some time to come, so I’m trying to work with what I’ve got, both to create a more satisfying tuning experience for myself, and to create a better-tuned piano for the students. Am I analyzing this situation correctly? Any additional thoughts or ideas? Any way to ascertain for sure if it’s a replacement block? Also, what about trying to re-pin just a handful of pins and see what result I get? Does anybody ever do that as a “test” for likelihood of getting a good result? BTW, I’ve re-pinned an entire 1960 Kawai KG before, and just went ahead and did it, getting a good result. Difference here is, it’s not a private client. I have to carefully consider where I invest my time, with about 65 pianos staring me in the face. :) Paul -- Paul Milesi Registered Piano Technician (RPT) Piano Technicians Guild (202) 667-3136 (202) 246-3136 Cell E-mail: paul at pmpiano.com Website: http://www.pmpiano.com Address: 3000 7th Street NE, Apt. 204 Washington, DC 20017-1402 ________________________________ From: <wimblees at aol.com> Reply-To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:00:38 -0400 To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning Pin Replacement AFTER CA Glue Paul Unless you're positive that a new block was installed, the best solution is a new block. Someone once told me, and I have personal experiences, that Baldwin blocks do not repin well. Before re-pinning, the blocks didn't feel like they needed to be replaced, but for some reason, within a couple of years, I wound up having to do that anyway. If replacing is still not an option, since you said the pins were set too high, why don't you try driving the pins first? Be sure to support the block, and of course you'll have to retune a couple of times, but that's still easier than re-pinning. Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician Mililani, Oahu, HI 808-349-2943 Author of: The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press www.pianotuning.com -----Original Message----- From: Paul Milesi <paul at pmpiano.com> To: PTG Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 7:03 am Subject: [pianotech] Tuning Pin Replacement AFTER CA Glue I would appreciate any advice anyone might be able to offer me regarding replacing the tuning pins in a 1961 Baldwin L with, I believe, a replacement pinblock that was subsequently treated with CA glue. Will the old CA glue cause any probl ems when pounding in new pins. I think one size larger would yield adequate torque. The piano is in a school, and was “rebuilt” at some point in the past. It has “new-ish” hammers, shanks, flanges, a shimmed and refinished soundboard, possibly recapped bridge, new-ish bass strings (still shiny). Fundamentally a nice piano. It appears a new block was installed, and the piano definitely has been restrung. Unfortunately, the tuning pins were left waaaaay too far out of the block, and most are flagpoling. Some sections were pounded down (later, I assume, by someone else?), but must be this failed to provide adequate torque, so CA glue was used on some pins (visual evidence, feel). Excessive dryness from HVAC has been a chronic problem in this facility since it opened in 1961. I have a new Life Saver System I will be installing. Why re-pin? Because I’m not a fan of pinblock restorer or CA glue. So to get the torque up I am thinking of trying a full re-pinning. There’s no money for another rebuild or move to shop, so I am trying to make this piano serviceable where it is in the band and small group rehearsal room (currently in use there). With tuning stability, it’s parts indicate it could be well-regulated and voiced, becoming a very clean, respectable rehearsal room piano (6’1”). Thanks for the help. Paul -- Paul Milesi Registered Piano Technician ( RPT) Piano Technicians Guild (202) 667-3136 (202) 246-3136 Cell E-mail: paul at pmpiano.com Website: http://www.pmpiano.com <http://www.pmpiano.com/><http://www.pmpiano.com/> Address: 3000 7th Street NE, Apt. 204 Washington, DC 20017-1402 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20090922/ec91dd31/attachment-0001.htm>
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