[CAUT] Just how much brilliance can a pianist make ?

[Dan Reed]

The is the  subject of 'measuring musical perception'....from person to 
person/ piano to piano. This is a vast subject, relative to the study 
of  what conciseness is...

Since the whole universe is Harmonic, this is the right direction.


 (When asked about his theory of relativity)
 "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force 
behind that intuition.
 My discovery was the result of musical perception."
 - Albert Einsten 
Dan
Dallas, Texas

On Aug 23, 2008, at 8:38 AM, David Love wrote:

> First thing is that everyone likes it different and you can get trapped
> chasing each pianist's individual taste in voicing.  Many pianists,
> especially in a concert situation, don't want to have to work too hard 
> for
> brilliance--especially through the treble.  Working too hard can 
> compromise
> relaxation in playing which ultimately produces the best and most 
> resilient
> tone including a fuller and rounder forte-fortissimo.  Acceleration, 
> then,
> is more a matter of controlling weight.  Bigger, beefier pianists will 
> have
> a somewhat easier time on a piano that is less brilliant.  More 
> diminutive
> players will have to add too much muscle which can compromise their 
> playing
> somewhat.  Most concert pianos are set up brighter than they would be 
> were
> that piano voiced for the living room.  In a concert situation you are 
> more
> concerned with how the piano sounds at row 20 than you are at the 
> bench.
> Young and inexperienced pianists often don't know that and often feel 
> that
> the power and brilliance of a piano set up for a hall is out of 
> control.
> Personally, I would rather err on the side of too much brilliance than 
> the
> other way as long as the piano is even and predictable.  Ultimately,
> however, it's predictability that counts for the pianist.  As long as 
> the
> note they are about to play produces what they think it will produce 
> before
> they play it, they can manage just about anything.  The lack of
> predictability is what drives them nuts--both in terms of touch and 
> tone,
> btw.
>
>
>
> David Love
> davidlovepianos at comcast.net
> www.davidlovepianos.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of 
> Fred
> Sturm
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:03 PM
> To: College and University Technicians
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Just how much brilliance can a pianist make ?
>
> On Aug 22, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Richard Brekne wrote:
>
>> Hi folks.
>>
>> Ran into an interesting tidbit the other day which prompted me to
>> put the following to you all. I service a relatively young D here in
>> town and there are a few different local pianists who are regulars
>> on it. After summer I was asked by the youngest of these, a 17 year
>> old prodigy, to calm it down a bit. His concern was that he could
>> not get a satisfactory pianissimo.  One of his main influences is a
>> prominent pedagogue in the Russian tradition for the record. I
>> mentioned that a few of the other pianists... one in particular
>> wanted the thing pretty much as it was... brighter really as they
>> felt they could not get enough brilliance out of the instrument.  He
>> kind of snorted and said something along the lines of "thats because
>> she can not make her own brilliance".  Ok... the kids got a heavy
>> hand I'll give him that.....
>
> To which your (unspoken) response is, "just as you are unable to make
> your own pianissimo. It's easy to play loud, not so easy to play
> quietly with control. Come back when you've honed your craft as a
> pianist and we'll talk again."
> 	The more practical response is to do a wee bit of sugaring to the
> crowns, particularly in the una corda position - he's Russian trained,
> he uses the pedal, yes? Then you don't displease those who want more
> brilliance.
>
>> BUT...  given the physical limitations of the piano I have to wonder
>> something about just how much "brilliance" is in the grasp of
>> players... and in particular if his hands, heavy tho they may be,
>> should indeed be able to out power just about any other accomplished
>> player.  The action will allow only so much hammer velocity yes ?
>> Is not top velocity and for that matter momentum within the reach of
>> just about any very good player ? Just how strong do you have to be ?
>
> Yes, I agree. Any reasonably healthy player can get every last bit of
> useful musical volume out of an instrument. Many "young colts" think
> they can get more, and as to whether the "more" is "useful musically,"
> well, let's just say there can be differences of opinion. I think it
> is more a matter of the physical feel of playing, the need to make use
> of all that youthful excess energy, and the lack of a critical ear,
> but maybe that's just the crotchety old fogy emerging in my
> personality <G>.
> 	There is a limit to how much power can be transferred from hammer to
>
> strings. You can continue to speed up the velocity, and more "noise"
> will happen, much of it impact (key to keybed, hammer "thwack"), but
> the string and soundboard can only handle so much before focus and
> definition are lost.
> 	I think the ideal is where the "top brilliance" of the hammer
> (voicing wise) happens just when "useful musicality" is ready to
> disappear (of course, exactly where that line is drawn becomes a
> matter of dispute). But really the very loudest sound (musical,
> setting aside the noise aspects) can be produced from the top of the
> key down (fingers on the keys as a starting point). A well-trained and
> practiced pianist can accelerate to maximum in that span, IMO. (Which
> is not to argue that the fingers should always be glued to the keys.
> Just  an illustration to put force required into perspective).
>
>> This is a question I've never really asked myself and if there is a
>> real significant window of variance here... then I suppose it needs
>> to be put into my voicing awareness box for further consideration.
>>
>> Thanks for any / all input.
>>
>> Cheers
>> RicB
>
>
> Regards,
> Fred Sturm
> University of New Mexico
> fssturm at unm.edu
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 6280 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20080823/f0712815/attachment.bin