list, Does anyone know who is selling the "Wonder Wand" tuning hammers that Charles Huether used to sell? Thanks j. >From owner-pianotech@ptg.org Sun Aug 23 13:29:41 1998 >Received: (from majordomo@localhost) > by bridget.rudoff.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA24743 > for pianotech-digest-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:27:17 -0600 (MDT) >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:27:17 -0600 (MDT) >Message-Id: <199808232027.OAA24743@bridget.rudoff.com> >From: owner-pianotech-digest@ptg.org (pianotech-digest) >To: pianotech-digest@ptg.org >Subject: pianotech-digest V1997 #1056 >Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org >Sender: owner-pianotech-digest@ptg.org >Errors-To: owner-pianotech-digest@ptg.org >Precedence: bulk > > >pianotech-digest Sunday, August 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 1056 > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:21:12 -0400 >From: ted@brevard.net (Ted Simmons) >Subject: Re: Replacing grommets > >To be specific, it was the January 1998 issue of the Journal, page 12. >Ted Simmons > >>Hi Clyde, >> A few months back a complete description can be found in the >>forum of the journal. >>Regards Roger. >> >> >>At 03:34 PM 22/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Friends: >>> >>>Looks like an easy job, but I've never done it before, so I need a >>>little reassurance.... >>> >>>The little doughnut-shaped grommets at the top of the sticker wires >>>(1967 Baldin Acrosonic spinet) have gone brittle. Looks like I should >>>just be able to break them off and stretch the new rubber ones over the >>>smallish nut at the top of the sticker wire. OK? Or do I need to >>>unscrew the wires to slip the grommet on the lower end? Thanks in >>>advance. >>> >>>Clyde Hollinger >>> >>> >>Roger Jolly >>Baldwin Yamaha Piano Centre >>Saskatoon and Regina >>Saskatchewan, Canada. >>306-665-0213 >>Fax 652-0505 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:20:18 +1200 >From: "Alan W Deverell" <aland@casa.co.nz> >Subject: RE: Plate - Grinding > >Yes - thanks Joe - my most profound apologies to "Al Jolson" > >AlanD (who's memory & spelling is pretty atrocious at the best of >times and who's spell checker does not have "Jolson" in it anyway) > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pianotech@ptg.org >>[mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]On Behalf >>Of Joe & Penny Goss >>Sent: Sunday, August 23, 1998 1:15 PM >>To: pianotech@ptg.org >>Subject: Re: Plate - Grinding >> >> >>ALAN, >>Do you mean Al Jolson? >>Joe >>---------- >>> From: Alan W Deverell <aland@casa.co.nz> >>> To: pianotech@ptg.org >>> Subject: RE: Plate - Grinding >>> Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 6:48 PM >>> >>> Peter & Others - I might have added (although most may >>already know): >>> >>> 1) Cast Iron is quite brittle - surface defects in stress areas can >>> lead to fracture cracks - can lead to eventual breaking of the >>> casting. >>> >>> 2) Cast Irons is NOT very ductile - do NOT hammer or >>subject to high >>> impact/shock loadings (drop on to a concrete floor). There is an >>> exception to this, in that, "peening" a welded crack to unify the >>> stresses introduced by welding - but this is the preserve >>of a skilled >>> cast iron welder). >>> >>> 3) If you progressively "drill out" a line along the 25mm >>you wish to >>> remove (as someone suggested) you MUST ensure that you >>grind away the >>> drillings so as to ensure a clean uniform blended (fettled) surface >>> conforming to the sculpture of a GOOD plate design, >>otherwise, if the >>> are any loadings throughout the area removed then the >>caution of "1)" >>> above may be revealed. >>> >>> 4) Some Piano Castings are pretty rough and "fettling" of >>the castings >>> not properly undertaken. I believe that tidying up with a >>die-grinder >>> etc. (as described below) is often appropriate/essential to a >>> professional re-build before the plate is re-painted. >>> >>> 5) The invasion of Cast Iron dust included the human skin >>etc., so, if >>> face, scalp, hair and hands etc. are not covered then you will >>> certainly require to take a shower otherwise you may look like Al >>> Johnson, or some other character out of the Black & White >>Minstrels. >>> >>> AlanD (who has often looked like Al Johnson but never sung >>like him) >>> >>> PS - Not sure if Belgium knows about Al Johnson and the >>"Black & White >>> Minstrels" >>> >>> >-----Original Message----- >>> >From: owner-pianotech@ptg.org >>> >[mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]On Behalf >>> >Of Peter Kestens >>> >Sent: Sunday, August 23, 1998 7:17 AM >>> >To: pianotech@ptg.org >>> >Subject: Re: Plate - Grinding >>> > >>> > >>> >Alan, >>> > >>> >Thanks a lot for your information. I hope it all will work well. >>> >Peter >>> >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> >Van: Alan W Deverell <aland@casa.co.nz> >>> >Aan: pianotech@ptg.org <pianotech@ptg.org> >>> >Datum: vrijdag 21 augustus 1998 1:37 >>> >Onderwerp: RE: Plate - Grinding >>> > >>> > >>> >>Although I have never had to remove as much as 25mm >>(1"), my work on >>> >>Older Cast Iron Plates has all been done with the aid of >>> >the following >>> >>equipment: >>> >> >>> >>1) Tool Makers Die Grinders (electric or pneumatic) fitted with >>> >>appropriate "Mounted Points" up to 1" diameter and shaped, using >>> >>"dressing tools" to suit the "re-fettling" job. >>> >>2) Angle Grinders (electric or pneumatic) fitted with >>> >appropriate grit >>> >>disks and sanding pads. >>> >>3) Sanding "bobs" (mounted in electric or pneumatic >>drills) to level >>> >>some of the surface markings. >>> >>4) Hand sanding using cloth backed "emmery paper" strips. >>> >> >>> >>Any good engineering supply shop should be able to >>advise you in the >>> >>selection of all the gear. >>> >> >>> >>I recommend that you practice the skills on something unimportant >>> >>before you begin in earnest and that you ensure that the >>> >25mm you wish >>> >>to remove is NOT going to compromise the structural >>integrity of the >>> >>plate. >>> >> >>> >>Warning - Cast Iron DUST, produced by these methods, is >>> >VERY invasive >>> >>and it is essential to wear appropriate breathing >>apparatus, safety >>> >>glasses and ear muffs etc. and to vacuums clean/sweep up >>afterwards. >>> >> >>> >>AlanD (who learned these basic skills, 25 years ago, porting and >>> >>polishing the cylinder heads of racing engines) >>> >> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>> >>>From: owner-pianotech@ptg.org >>> >>>[mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]On Behalf >>> >>>Of Peter Kestens >>> >>>Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 8:12 AM >>> >>>To: pianotech@ptg.org >>> >>>Subject: plate >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Hello, >>> >>> >>> >>>I'm "truying" to rebuild an old (ugly) german piano to a >>> >>>(less or more) >>> >>>decent one. Lets say I do it as an exercise. >>> >>>For this, I've rescaled the old stringscale but I've also to >>> >>>make a totally >>> >>>new bridge because the program (=Parsons) showed strings >>> >>>that are about 30 >>> >>>mm to long (and this means inharmonicity is very bad). I >>> >>>also have to remove >>> >>>some metal from the plate: the new bridge comes about where >>> >>>two screws now >>> >>>fasten the plate. There is place to make new screw-holes 25 >>> >>>mm higher but >>> >>>what is the most easy way to remove about 25 mm of metal >>> >>>without to much >>> >>>damaging the plate. The screw-holes are for the moment >>> >>>left and right >>> >>>from the treble bar from the plate. Thanks a lot for your help. >>> >>> >>> >>>Peter >>> >>> >>> >>>KESTENS.P@DEBCOM.BE >>> >> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:46:57 -0600 >From: Roger Jolly <baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: New York or Hamburg > >Greetings Ed, > I thought of this approach, but some thing has been spilt on >over about a third of the rail, so part of the clean up will be treating >the rail with wood bleach to get it looking new again. >But thanks for your help. Roger. > > > >> I drill out the red felt, leaving the black in place, and then rebush >with >>the current Steinway rebushing felt. It is so much easier than any other >>approach, and it leaves that factory look to it. >>Regards, >>Ed Foote >> >Roger Jolly >Baldwin Yamaha Piano Centre >Saskatoon and Regina >Saskatchewan, Canada. >306-665-0213 >Fax 652-0505 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:01:37 EDT >From: VOCE88@aol.com >Subject: Re: M&H BB harmonic > >In a message dated 8/22/98 10:39:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rue@ncia.com >writes: > >> Dear List, I have a client with a problem Mason & Hamlin BB. The piano >> has a very strong harmonic produced by G#5. The sound continues after the >> key is released and cannot be stopped by blocking the string or any >> related strings. The sound is also produced, but to a lesser degree, by >> G#2,3, &4 and by C#3 & 4. I have tried blocking all G# & C# strings in >> the piano as well as muting the strings behind the bridges to no avail. >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dan Rue, RPT > >Hi Dan, > > I have yet to hear the tension resonator mentioned. I have had a Mason >"A" after rebuilding that had sympathetic vibrations on only 2 or 3 keys >(seemed to be all strings on each note). The culprit was the tension >resonator. > > Just my 2 cents. > >Richard Galassini >Cunningham Piano Co >1 800 394 1117 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:06:19 EDT >From: A440A@aol.com >Subject: Re: FAC numbers > >Inre the SAT, Richard writes: >>If the crown dips a miniscule, the pitch drop it seems can >>be detected by machine... > >Greetings Richard, > The SAT will tell you a pitch difference if you lightly press on the >bridge near the string, it will tell you when an airconditioning system turns >on an off. It is will let you see the momentary sharpening of a FF blow on >the high strings and, the SAT has a memory, (which is a good thing). > >Regards, >Ed Foote >< I use SAT, but I understand that the RCT, Tunelab, and several others >achieve the same level of performance> > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:12:33 -0600 >From: "Joe & Penny Goss" <imatunr@primenet.com> >Subject: Re: FAC numbers > >HI Jim, >What are the advantages of tuning FAC as opposed to F4? >Was the F4 curve better for some scaled pianos? >Joe > >- ---------- >> Hi richard: >> >> The F, A, and C were chosen for very important reasons. If you know what >the >> inharmonicity of F3 is and can locate that note, you know how you want to >> tune Bb0 (it is the 6th partial of Bb0). If you know the inharmonicity of >> A4, you can accurately locate A4, A3, A5, A6 and A7. If you know the >> inharmonicity of C6, you can locate C6, C7, and C8. If you can locate >> all of these, then you can do a mathematical smooth curving of the >plotted >> points and have a complete tuning for the piano. Sure, you could measure >> all of the notes and make a more precise tuning (maybe), but it is not >> practical except in Lab work. It takes a very lengthy computer program to >> do this. There is another wise choice Dr. Sanderson made in choosing >these >> notes and the partials by which all notes are to be tuned. The Bass is >tuned >> from A0 thru B2 using the 6th partials. The section from C3 thru B4 is >> tuned using the 4th partial. The section from C5 thru B5 is tuned using >the >> 2nd partial. In each of these section these are the most important and >> usually the strongest partials to be heard. >> >> The reason for measuring the difference between the 4th and 8th partials >> of F3 is because you get more consistent answers as to the the general >> inharmonicity of that note. The same goes for the A4 (using 2nd and 4th >> partials) and for C6 (using 1st and 2nd partials). >> >> There is no attempt to try to tune the 5ths. If the scale of the piano >> is rather decent, they will come out pretty good. If the scale is not >good, >> you cant do much better anyway. Oh sure, you could give more attention >> to the 5ths, but this would be at the expense of consistency in 3rds, >> double octaves, 10ths etc. You can't have it all on a poor scale even as >> "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". >> >> Once an inharmonicity curve is plotted, you can tune any note by any >> partial you wish. Just think how many intervals are controlled by the 4th >> partial which is used in the most critical part of the tuning. Octaves >> (4-2 relationship), M3rds (4-5 relationships), 5ths (6-4 relationships), >> P4ths (3-4 relationships), m7ths (4-7 relationships). I just can't think >of >> any other partial which affects so many intervals. Oh, I forgot Double >> Octaves (4-1 relationships). >> >> Tuning Octave 5 by the 2nd partials gives more accuracy than tuning by >> the fundamental. Above that, the fundamental is strongest and best to >tune >> by. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:01:04 -0400 >From: nhunt@jagat.com (Newton Hunt) >Subject: Re: Elmer's Slide-All vs. Permalon vs. Protek PROlube > >Hi David, > >I have used Slide-All for about 30 years or so. At least it feels that >long! > >I like it because I know it's assets and liabilities. The white coating >is Teflon, like Steinway teflon bushings and is the lubricant itself. I >like to use very little except on felt where I use more. I use it onj >knuckles, wippen tops, keybed, keybushings, capstans, key pins, pedal >parts, damper wires, drawers, and anything else requiring a dry >lubricant. I buy the stuff by the case. > >I also carry VJ Lube in my case for pedals and high stress areas. >Protek is left in the shop. > > Newton > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:45:11 -0700 >From: Robert Goodale <Robert.Goodale@nau.edu> >Subject: Labor day get-a-way > >Hi all, > >It's been a while since I have had a REAL vacation. I've been thinking >about doing some back packing in the California Sierra (Inyo National >Forest area): >http://www.gorp.com/gorp/resource/us_national_forest/ca_inyo.htm > >I have yet to find anyone else interested in going with me so I thought >I'd express my idea here. If not I may just do it alone. Perhaps this >sounds like fun to any techs in the west? Sort of a "tooners holiday". >I'm figuring about ten days or so, all of Labor Day week + both >weekends, perhaps one additional day for travel. > >If you have never been up there it is absolutely breath taking, pure >100% God's country. Rainbow, brown, and speckled trout fishing, >hiking/climbing, lots of quiet, (no piano sounds for a while), and the >cleanest air on earth. Anyone(s) interested? e-me soon, planning time is >now. > >Rob Goodale, RPT > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:44:36 -0700 (MST) >From: "Jim Coleman, Sr." <pianotoo@imap2.asu.edu> >Subject: Coleman notes > > This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, > while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. > Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. > >- --3827700-8012--1182160918=:77800174 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII >Content-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.91.980823124052.8918C@sss21-01.inre.asu.edu> > >HI to all: > >Some have written again and said they didn't get my notes on how to >practice for the Tuning exam. There were so many requests, that I >followed the suggestions of some of my collegues to post in general to >the whole list. > >Jim Coleman, Sr. > >- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:26:18 -0700 (MST) >From: Jim Coleman, Sr. <pianotoo@imap2.asu.edu> >To: "John M. Ross" <piano.tech@ns.sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: To all Associates > >Here are the two articles which I promised those who requested. The >First is as an attachment to this email. The second is included below. > >Temperament Practice > >Use my procedure for the Baldassin/Sanderson/Kimbell/Tremper >Temperament. Practice just the first part until you can come within >.3 cents of each of the first three notes according to an FAC >temperament. (ie, get the three A's right). > >Then practice tuning the two Fs and the C#s until you can get them >within .3 cents each time before looking at the SAT. > >After you can do that each time successfully, Then tune those notes >with the SAT and practice getting the B3 within .3 cents each time. >Once you can do this, the rest is easy. It's just a matter of >fitting the 3rds among their neighbors. > >It sounds easy, but does hard. Don't waste your practice time trying >to set a whole temperament and then checking until you can do the >above without mistakes. On a good piano scale, there is nothing >wrong with the FAC tunings. If you think there is, go back and check >your accuracy on each of the notes involved. You'll find like I do >most of the time that you failed to really stop the LEDs properly >in the first place. > > >Jim Coleman, Sr. > >PS The Baldassin/Sanderson/Kimbell/Tremper Temperament is as I currently >use it and is saved as a Tuning Sequence #SE 2 in my SAT III. I'm hoping >that when production is released that they will include my suggestions for >tuning sequences. 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If you see a problem with the FAC, >then switch over to the F4 Stretch system. Sometimes the F3 just doesn't >fit the rest of the piano. > >Jim Coleman, Sr. > >On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Joe & Penny Goss wrote: > >> HI Jim, >> What are the advantages of tuning FAC as opposed to F4? >> Was the F4 curve better for some scaled pianos? >> Joe >> >> ---------- >> > Hi richard: >> > >> > The F, A, and C were chosen for very important reasons. If you know what >> the >> > inharmonicity of F3 is and can locate that note, you know how you want to >> > tune Bb0 (it is the 6th partial of Bb0). If you know the inharmonicity of >> > A4, you can accurately locate A4, A3, A5, A6 and A7. If you know the >> > inharmonicity of C6, you can locate C6, C7, and C8. If you can locate >> > all of these, then you can do a mathematical smooth curving of the >> plotted >> > points and have a complete tuning for the piano. Sure, you could measure >> > all of the notes and make a more precise tuning (maybe), but it is not >> > practical except in Lab work. It takes a very lengthy computer program to >> > do this. There is another wise choice Dr. Sanderson made in choosing >> these >> > notes and the partials by which all notes are to be tuned. The Bass is >> tuned >> > from A0 thru B2 using the 6th partials. The section from C3 thru B4 is >> > tuned using the 4th partial. The section from C5 thru B5 is tuned using >> the >> > 2nd partial. In each of these section these are the most important and >> > usually the strongest partials to be heard. >> > >> > The reason for measuring the difference between the 4th and 8th partials >> > of F3 is because you get more consistent answers as to the the general >> > inharmonicity of that note. The same goes for the A4 (using 2nd and 4th >> > partials) and for C6 (using 1st and 2nd partials). >> > >> > There is no attempt to try to tune the 5ths. If the scale of the piano >> > is rather decent, they will come out pretty good. If the scale is not >> good, >> > you cant do much better anyway. Oh sure, you could give more attention >> > to the 5ths, but this would be at the expense of consistency in 3rds, >> > double octaves, 10ths etc. You can't have it all on a poor scale even as >> > "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". >> > >> > Once an inharmonicity curve is plotted, you can tune any note by any >> > partial you wish. Just think how many intervals are controlled by the 4th >> > partial which is used in the most critical part of the tuning. Octaves >> > (4-2 relationship), M3rds (4-5 relationships), 5ths (6-4 relationships), >> > P4ths (3-4 relationships), m7ths (4-7 relationships). I just can't think >> of >> > any other partial which affects so many intervals. Oh, I forgot Double >> > Octaves (4-1 relationships). >> > >> > Tuning Octave 5 by the 2nd partials gives more accuracy than tuning by >> > the fundamental. Above that, the fundamental is strongest and best to >> tune >> > by. >> >> >> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:31:15 -0500 >From: lesbart@juno.com (Leslie W Bartlett) >Subject: chickering > >Well, folks, anyone want to buy a Chickering grand, only about thirty >years old???? It'd make a wonderful piano for some grandmother who has a >lot of family photos.. > >I appreciate the candid replies, and will pass the news on, which, >frankly, I think my musician friend already knew. But thirty years ago, >her family wasn't piano-savvy, nor were they Steinway wealthy. I think >her folks are "comfortable"- but I don't know if that means they'll >spring for a real piano.......... > >Les Bartlett > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:26:06 -0500 >From: lesbart@juno.com (Leslie W Bartlett) >Subject: Re: Chickering rebuild (long) > > You >>can probably make the action functional. > > I'm going to play with it, hoping to improve it a bit. > >If necessary, you could >>replace it all >>with new action parts made of wood that was actually dry 'before' they >>got cut >>out. > > No, no no nonononono. That's beyond my expertise at this early >stage in my career- and by the time I did all that kind of work, the >several thousands of dollars she would have spent could have been put >toward a real piano... > > But...no matter what you do to the hammers, the tone is not >>going to get >>much better unless the soundboard is replaced. > I've watched Jim Geiger do a soundboard, and that is as close as >I ever want to get to doing a board. We've got Ronald and Merle Sanford >in Pasadena (south of Houston), for those difficult tasks. > > Thanks for your info. > > >Leslie Bartlett >lesbart@juno.com >Outside of a dog, a good book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it's too >dark to read" > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >------------------------------ > >End of pianotech-digest V1997 #1056 >*********************************** > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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