Refinishing Problem

[Farrell]

Hi Mark. Thanks for the input. I will try spraying thinner coats. I have
been using the SA5 retarder up to 10% and still have orange peel, but again,
I have been putting it on thick - that may be my problem because some coats
came out great - just hard to figure out exactly what you did different at
one little point in time - may be the planetary alignment thing. You say
spray 6 - 8 inches away from surface. I'm likely more in the range of 4 - 6
inches away - my information is that orange peel can result from being too
far away - so I will stay where I am, but just spray thinner coats next
time. I'll let you know how it came out.

Terry Farrell
Piano Tuning & Service
Tampa, Florida
mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <bases-loaded@juno.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Refinishing Problem


> Hi Terry -
>
> Yes, I use Oxford PSL and really like it.  As a rule, making coats "as
> thick as you can make them" is not a good overall policy, in my
> experience, either with water-based OR solvent-based material.  You are
> just begging for orange peel and 'soft belly', and other unmentionables.
>
>
> Yes, I am still using the Accuspray conversion gun.  I am not really
> familiar with your gun, although I have heard of it and am sure it is
> fine.  Try a nozzle/cap configuration that gives you better atomization,
> or thin the material 5% with water and spray thinner coats, or ideally
> both.  There is a flow-out additive/retarder that Target Coatings makes
> that is compatible with the PSL, something like SA5, that you may want to
> try if you continue to have problems.  I have not found the need to use
> it, but it may be appropriate in your situation.
>
> You may be spraying too far from the surface, too.  Also, the temperature
> and humidity play a role here, as well.  Sounds a bit like voodoo magic,
> eh?  Make sure Saturn is aligned with Uranus and there is a total eclipse
> of one of Jupiter's moons!  (kidding, of course...)  Basically, if your
> temp is in the 70's, humidity 45-65%, and you spray thinner coats of
> thinned material from about 6-8 inches from the surface, you should have
> very good results.
>
> Mark Potter
> bases-loaded@juno.com
>
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 13:52:34 -0500 "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
> writes:
> > Hi Mark. I am spraying Oxford PSL for the first time. Lots of orange
> > peel. I
> > wish I had read your post below from last January and tried to spray
> > it a
> > bit thinner - I know my coats were going on just about as thick as I
> > could
> > make them without running. Do you still suggest trying thinner coats
> > to
> > minimize orange peel?
> >
> > Are you still using your conversion AccuSpray gun? I am trying a Eco
> > gravity
> > gun.
> >
> > Terry Farrell
> > Piano Tuning & Service
> > Tampa, Florida
> > mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bases-loaded@juno.com>
> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 11:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: Refinishing Problem
> >
> >
> > > HI Terry -
> > >
> > > I have been using Enduro for some time now, and use an Accuspray
> > gun, as
> > > well.  However, I use a compressor to power my gun instead of a
> > turbine,
> > > so I use the so called "conversion" gun (Accuspray Model 10).
> > >
> > > At any rate, I have sprayed their Poly quite often, and have used
> > the
> > > .043 nozzle with the # 9 cap, as you indicated.   I switched over
> > to a #
> > > 7 cap about a year ago, for better atomization.  The differences
> > are not
> > > dramatic, but they are tangible.
> > >
> > > I would recommend solving your problem this way:  definitely spray
> > > thinner coats.  It's visually more deceiving with the water-based
> > than it
> > > was with the old nitro.  A proper coat tends to "look" like it
> > needs more
> > > material, but it doesn't.  If you are applying coats that look
> > really
> > > wet, then they are too heavy.  The only times I have had trouble
> > with
> > > water-based stuff is when I got too heavy.  Also, you might try
> > adding
> > > about 5% water to the finish.  This will help flow-out a bit.
> > They very
> > > well may have a flo-out additive, or a retarder of some type, but
> > I have
> > > never needed it, so I'm not sure.
> > >
> > > I'm assuming, of course, that there is no problems with
> > contaminants on
> > > the wood, and that there is an adequate mechanical bond available
> > for the
> > > poly.  What are you spraying it onto?  A sealer?  Shellac?
> > Itself?  Poly
> > > can be finicky in what it adheres to, and how well.  In all
> > likelihood,
> > > thinner coats will solve your problem.
> > >
> > > If you continue to have problems, you might try contacting Enduro,
> > or go
> > > straight to Mark Ellis, their seminar guy.  He is quite
> > knowledgeable
> > > about their products, and is very helpful.  You probably have
> > Enduro's #.
> > >  Call them to see if they can help;  if you don't feel they are
> > solving
> > > your problem, ask them for Mark's #.....  I'm sure he can coach
> > you thru
> > > it.
> > >
> > > BTW, the last job I did I used a finish by Target Coatings called
> > "Oxford
> > > Hybrid Varnish".  It's a water-based urethane that somehow
> > includes a
> > > modified tung oil, and had the warmest look of any WB finish I
> > have seen
> > > to date.  I sprayed it, but I am told that it brushes on like a
> > dream.
> > > If you are at all interested, check out www.targetcoatings.com
> > >
> > > Mark Potter
> > > bases-loaded@juno.com
> > >
> > > On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:20:23 -0500 "Farrell"
> > <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
> > > writes:
> > > > PianoTech Refinishers:
> > > >
> > > > I am looking for input from any of the refinishers in the group
> > that
> > > > work
> > > > with water-base materials. I am having trouble with what I
> > believe
> > > > is
> > > > commonly referred to as "orange peel".
> > > >
> > > > I am using Enduro polyurethane water-base hi-gloss clear-coat
> > > > (numerous
> > > > refinishers have indicated that it is the "best") with an
> > Accuspray
> > > > spray
> > > > gun equipped with a #9 nozzle and a 0.043 tip (this is the
> > > > combination
> > > > recommended by Enduro for the product I am using). My sprayer is
> > > > supplied
> > > > with air by a 3-stage turbine. I am typically spraying with
> > > > atmospheric
> > > > conditions of about 80 degrees and 60% relative humidity.
> > > >
> > > > My understanding is that "orange peel" (my refinishing is coming
> > out
> > > > looking
> > > > like the skin of a basketball - only finer grained - is this
> > "orange
> > > > peel")
> > > > is caused by the material drying before it has sufficient time
> > to
> > > > flow out.
> > > > It seems to me that 80 degrees is not too hot ( it is hard to
> > get it
> > > > lower
> > > > in the summer), and 60% humidity is certainly not too dry. I am
> > > > spraying
> > > > within 6 - 8 inches from the object being sprayed. I am putting
> > on
> > > > what I
> > > > think is enough material - it looks real wet and if I put any
> > more
> > > > on it
> > > > will run (I know that for a fact!).
> > > >
> > > > What on earth am I doing wrong????? Anyone???? Any ideas?????
> > > > Help!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Terry Farrell
> > > > Piano Tuning & Service
> > > > Tampa, Florida
> > > > mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
>