Tuning with a fork and the Sanderson Baldassin procedure.

[Isaac OLEG]

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MessageI have meet, some musicians, conductors, and pianists that where very
sensitive to the pitch of the piano. They mostly recognize it in the
sharpness of its tone .

Now many carry also a little tuner, but the reclamations or comments I had
came from aural appreciation generally.

There is also a psycho acoustical effect that make the musician "think" that
the piano is tuned at the pitch they asked !

Ok I should not say so !

Best

Isaac

-----Message d'origine-----
De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la part
de Richard Moody
Envoye : samedi 21 aout 2004 08:09
A : tcole@cruzio.com; 'Pianotech'
Objet : RE: Tuning with a fork and the Sanderson Baldassin procedure.


To match a string on the piano with an A440 tuning fork or A442 tuning fork
takes a little more time than using a $19 pocket guitar tuner and is useful
really only for a "test".   BUT in reality you never match A440, you only
determine how far you are from it and make a decision as the expert, to say,
"this is close enough", or " the pitch needs to be raised and I need two
tunings to get as good as I can get it.  If the pitch needs to be raised you
must make an expert guess how far above the pitch you should go.
    If the piano is sitting on 439 or 441 and the contracts calls for 440,
you are in compliance if you tune the piano to its A4 within this slight
variance.    So machine tuners adjust the machine, and aural tuners go ahead
for the touch up.  For some machine tuners 4 cents may look like a lot.  But
for musicians it is no problem.

If you want to deliver the best tuning, any pitch raise should be touched up
or at least "inspected" 24 hours later to allow for "settling"
and this is only the first of a number of considerations before changing the
pitch of a performance instrument.  Because to raise to pitch you must go
OVER pitch which is a guess because you know the piano will come down---but
how much???  So what is the point of determining with 15 minutes of tests
how far off A440 you are with a tuning fork?  Just  holding it in your hand
for 30 seconds will change its pitch as the cheapest electronic pocket tuner
will show.    So I have always advocated a range of 1 cps below or above
the desired pitch is OK and the piano will be in better tune for the
performance if tuned within this variance rather than raised or lowered to
5 or .5 cents according to the machine.
    Lately I have been listening to the fork, putting it down, listening to
A4 on the piano and if it sounds close enough, the tests come out closer
than you would expect.   For "accurate" pitch raises you do need to know the
beat rates as determined by the fork or  the reading of A4 by a machine.
  For concert tunings it is getting to the point where you should see what
the electronic tuner says because these days most musicians carry a cheap
pocket tuner.  In the "good ole days" I bet it was between 438 and 442
before they complained.
    Of course you can go on and on, like listening to F2 on the piano with
the tuning fork in your teeth. and comparing  the rate of F2 and A4 (10th)
on the piano.  But still, if you have to raise pitch the rate of A4 on the
piano it will beat sharp with the fork  at first.   By how much??
Experience is the best mentor.

Richard Moody     www.pnotec.com


"By far the best proof is experience".     Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1626);
English author and philosopher.



 []   -----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Thomas Cole
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 11:40 PM
To: Pianotech
Subject: Re: Tuning with a fork and the Sanderson Baldassin procedure.


  You don't need to count beats or make any calculations, although I did
find it useful, at first, to tune a couple of contiguous thirds - for
example, G2 - B2 and B2 - D#3 which have an approx. 4 beats to 5 beats
ratio - to learn what this relationship should sound like.

  What makes this method work so well is that you can run a series of three
contiguous thirds and easily decide if the middle one sounds more like the
lower beat rate or the upper beat rate and adjust accordingly.

  Tom Cole

  Alan Forsyth wrote:

    Isaac mentioned;

    "One of the nicest tricks I learned with the different Us methods is
    the 4:5 relation from contiguous thirds. ............"

    I tried this once long ago but was flummoxed when it came to
distinguishing the ratios. How on earth is one supposed to tell aurally
whether one beat rate is 25% faster or 20% slower than another beat rate?

    AF

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