the A floats

[Richard Moody]

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>From Bod Davis,
By the way, even when I tune aurally, I don't spend 15 minutes, as you
suggest in a previous post, setting the A well inside half a cent. 
. . . . . . . . . . . .  . .  . . . . . .  . . . . . .  . . . . .  . . .
.  . .  . . .  . ..  . . .
    To determine if A4 is within one cent takes 30 seconds if you use
tests.  I can't be sure about .5 cents unless I checked it with a
machine.  But then why would I be struggling with a fork?   
   To _set_  it as close as you claim I might need 15 minutes ; ) (well
what seems like 15 minutes) as I am not the best at matching the fork as
I rarely hear a piano dead on.  I don't know about half a cent but  two
cents can be heard  without tests and I would not raise the piano only
two cents on my own prerogative.   If I raised it four cents it would be
set two cents above so I can't think of an occasion to where I would set
the string to .5 cents. 
            You mention the orchestra floats but that it might could be
controlled.  I wonder if changes in the hall have some influence.  I
have always suspected that a piano floats during a performance to the
tune of 2 to four cents.    This notion comes from when I was asked by
the Musician's Union to tune a pit piano to A441, because they said, the
piano is at 440 by intermission (4 cents).    There was no guess work as
at that time a Korg crystal controlled needle tuner used  by the
orchestra also checked the piano   So I suggested the piano might by it
self drift this far down, and I adjusted the needle to demonstrate, but
if I find the piano right on 440 I will have to raise it to here, and
adjusted the needle half way between 441 and 442 because it should
settle.   He agreed and I suggested that if I needed to raise the piano
it might need a touch up before the show and he said, "We will call".
I quickly found out it showed the fork deviating from the heat of my
hand.  So I bought one.     I was scheduled  twice a week and always
found the piano at 441.  Which meant that the piano dropped  four cents
in a full house and then rose four cents in the dark.  All it needed was
your normal touch up which was amazing considering the use it got. (and
how much the A floated)  In six months I think I did one maybe two pitch
raises. 
---ric  (the i  stands for "I am stable")      
    
-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf Of BobDavis88@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 11:59 AM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: Re: Tuning with a fork......Sanderson...



Ric Moody writes:

 If you  produce a musician (oboist you say) who says their instruments
get weird outside of 2 cents deviation I will take a fresh  look (with
them) at my premise that you completely disagree with.  I know a few
musicians but have never asked them if  2 cents or [] even two cycles
per second is a big  deal and wonder if they know the difference.  

As an oboist as well as piano tuner, I get a chance to monitor, on a
long term basis, both the orchestra I play in and the piano out front. I
will agree that the pitch of the orchestra drifts during a performance.
However, I don't agree that it's acceptable, and want to do everything
within my power to limit it. I think the orchestra sounds best when it
adheres to a standard, whatever it is. I'll address both the piano side
and the orchestra side.
 
For at least an hour before I tune for a rehearsal or performance, I
have the stage manager set the air conditioning and lights where they
will be for the show. I figure they're paying me to tune at 440
(usually), so that's where I tune, to the best of my ability. If it's a
few cents off, I do a pitch correction, which will bring it inside one
cent, and only takes 15-20 minutes. Since this is a piano I tune often,
I have a stored tuning for it, which is an aurally tweaked calculated
tuning, and I listen each time to tweak it further to make up for
seasonal soundboard changes. I get a chance to go back two days later to
tune for the second performance, and it is rare that the change is more
than a cent; and that is attributable to climate and not to piano
instability (different pattern).
 
By the way, even when I tune aurally, I don't spend 15 minutes, as you
suggest in a previous post, setting the A well inside half a cent. It
doesn't take but about a minute. And yes, I do use an offset for the
pitch correction. Maybe it's a philosophical difference, but I don't
like to float pitch for a performance. I don't think it's a practical
necessity - it isn't that hard to stabilize at 440 with a quick pitch
correction. You never know how pitch-sensitive the pianist will be (I am
occasionally amazed), and, well, why not just do it. 
 
I make my reeds so they feel best at 440-441. The "A" I give to the
orchestra is 440 exactly. I check the pitch often electronically, and it
is typical for the some of the orchestra to drift upward as much as 4 Hz
on a bad day (the tone starts to pull apart). I can adapt with
embouchure up to about 441, maybe 442, then it becomes uncomfortable,
and I usually ask to retune. When we play with the piano, we stay very
close to pitch, and incidentally, sound better.
 
Bob Davis


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