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In a message dated 8/30/2004 1:23:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
remoody@midstatesd.net writes:
Concerning clients who bought defective pianos
You wrote,
"Both were bought from dealers who sent them there to Juarez."
Red Flag. It is the dealers that who are liable. They sold defective
merchandise. If they knew it, it is fraud.
>>> Richard
. So are you saying the work done in Juarez is fraud but the dealers are
the only ones culpable?
Perhaps the question is when a dealer orders action work in a Juarez what
is it they are buying or are there different levels of effort or
customization being offered at different prices? Can a custom balanced action be bought
with correct dimension parts etc.? This is a question I think Guy would p
robably like the oppurtuntiy to answer.
If the work was a disaster as you state how could the dealers not know,
which gets close to sales fraud. Whatever, they are responsible for what they
sell. They (dealers) can sue who did the work, but it may be too late after
they sold them. (this does not excuse shoddy work but if dealers take it in
and then sell it that is almost getting worse)
>. >. Yes a compounding series of unforntunate events for certain sure to
bite the end user every time.
Hey Dealers aren't piano techs & some are pretty naive, unmechanical, &
just bad judges of what is acceptable levels of piano cratsmanship. Frankly
some would be happier selling refrigerators
I beleive that Guy pointed out there are dealer responsiblilities &
Their(Sama) responsibilities. If they did refinish and stringing & some local
tooner "did the action" whatever that might be, well soon responsibility gets
spread around to a variety of different parties. Heck, one could have three
different lawsuits(theoretically) on the same piano. I'm assuming hypothetical
fraud negligence or misrepresentation of course.
In our shop every item in restoration gets done under one business banner
& also one warranty if need be. It's neat tidy & clients like it.
On the occasion I do belly or finish for a client it comes with a 5 yr.
warranty as well. But I'm not reposible for the action work or dampers etc.
Were these dealers in Calif? Calif has very strict and specific laws about
this. How long ago? Less than 30 days ago? If so, they (the buyers) may
have rights no other states offer.
>>>Yes One in Ca. & it was not a good one & legalities are being pursued.
Before you start work on the piano you might want to advise your
clients they may have legal rights and should consult a lawyer.
>> I Have, & it's good advice
You might want to consult a lawyer before you start work. Whatever, take
plenty of pictures.
> also good advice
The dealer should have had a tech check out the pianos. So should the buyer.
>>>> The dealer in this case didn't care& Yes the client he knows that
now
Your clients should have a lawyer check out their case. By not knowing to
advise them, you become much like the dealer who "didn't know."
>> Well they have been advised so perhaps you assumed I didn't?
I'm not like the dealer Richard
Professional ethics is another matter. It is better not to insinuate that a
business in your profession does shoddy work until you sit down and have
coffee with them first.
True but whe yoou see two in a row. any way Good advise & next time I'll
take it. I beleive were having coffee now.
:) Stuff has been said here (Does the list really need to know?) and the
sad part is from piano tuners who aren't even sure what they are talking
about; that if directed towards me, I would demand a retraction to my
satisfaction.
That's certainly true but have you noticed the amount of accusation on
list that is directed towards oh Steinway for example & not many on list have
objected to the critism. So is it ok to critise truly shoddy work or thing you
don't like or not. Should we just ignore such things like the abusive
Alcholic bully in a family that every one knows is being abusive but no one
wants to acnowledge it because it's uncomfortable.
Yes I get your unhappy vibes over the way I handled it but I of all
concerned probably was least culpable in this mess & I certainly didn't cause the
problems.
I hold my tongue on this kind of thing untill I see something that smacks
"shoddy work" resulting in customer related tradgedy. Then I get cranky. It
gives us all a bit of a black eye.
I've offered to apologize if the responsibility for what I saw lies
elswhere & that's good enough for me & those concerned. If it's a warranty issue
I'm sure it will be resolved. The dealer in the A stwy is being sued if they
can be found.
Defamation is still a crime and when you write it and then publish it,
it becomes libel. And the publisher can be held liable which in this case is
PTG.
> I beleive defammation is an intentional malisicous attack on anothers
credibility & not the same as an honest observation of the facts & a
repititon of a clients story as reported by them. I think your inflating it.
Otherwise much of what is read here on list would qualify under your definition for
defamation. You Lawyer types straighten me out on this if I'm amiss.
Does PTG have a written policy or bylaw that says "defamatory posts are not
permitted, and are the sole responsibility of the poster?" If not do I want
to be part of such a list? Do I want to be part of a list where "esteemed
colleagues" get derogatory on, well ........on un esteemed colleagues?
It's been done frequently in case you've not read lately many a recent
rancorous post in the past few years.
So you see how deep it can get just because of a thoughtless rant(s)... er
excuse me, tocsin.
And why do we have to go through it?
>> sorry you feel that way, it was hardly thoughtless or toxic. Is this
personal?
All due respect
Dale
Richard Moody
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