newbie questions

[Alan Barnard]

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Uhhhhhhh .... no.

4ths can and do beat at 1 bps or (for the truly brave) up to about 2 bps. 5ths should NEVER make this much noise. In any octave the 4th must beat faster than the 5th.

Center-piano fifths roll like swells on the ocean, 4ths have a true (albeit slow) beat.

I can't imagine having equal beating 4ths and  5ths within any octave ... maybe something has been misunderstood or misstated.

Cheers ...

Alan Barnard
Salem, Missouri


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Geoff Sykes 
To: Pianotech
Sent: 08/12/2005 1:08:48 AM 
Subject: RE: newbie questions


You said: In a C to C octave the lower 5th interval C to G will be the same beat rate as the higher 4th interval G to C.

As I continue practicing my aural tuning skills I'm discovering all kinds of "Aha!" relationships. The above relationship is one of them. Which leads me to today's naive question: Is this also true when the 4th & 5th are switched? IE: In the C to C octave described above, is the lower 4th interval, (C to F), then also the same beat rate as the higher 5th interval, (F to C)?

Geoff Sykes
Assoc. Los Angeles



-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of alan forsyth
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:08 PM
To: Pianotech
Subject: Re: newbie questions


Too late, I'm already asleep ....zzzzzzzz

AF

 PS Consider the following;

"it would seem to me that there would be opportunity for higher partials to be all over the place "

That is the very reason why you should listen to them so that you CAN put them in their place. They are very audible in the lower tenor and bearing scale.

"with the inharmonicity differences in wire. I.e., a plain wire and wound wire. "

Would this not be the very reason that manufacturers prefer the scale design of low tension in the lower tenor to that of equalizing breaking strain  as in Yamaha GH1?

"I still don't see how you use that beat speed to put the wire being tuned into your tuning pattern. "

The second partial intersection of the 5ths would fall in to the same region on the keyboard as the first partial intersection of the other main intervals ; 3rds, 4ths and 6ths.
In a C to C octave the lower 5th interval C to G will be the same beat rate as the higher 4th interval G to C.

Once again

AF
Not running for office, but for cover!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Joseph Alkana 
To: Pianotech 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: newbie questions


AF,
Considering the spread of a fifth, it would seem to me that there would be opportunity for higher partials to be all over the place with the inharmonicity differences in wire. I.e., a plain wire and wound wire. By my ears, the beats of the higher partials are no where near double sometimes, but I haven't really got into it yet. I still don't see how you use that beat speed to put the wire being tuned into your tuning pattern. More info, please.

Joseph Alkana RPT
----- Original Message ----- 
From: alan forsyth 
To: Pianotech 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: newbie questions


The beats are twice the speed so you can make a much more accurate judgment as to the correctness of your interval.

AF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Joseph Alkana 
To: Pianotech 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: newbie questions


AF,
And just exactly what would you discern from hearing the second, or higher coincident partials? How would you make use of the information at that point?

Just curious.
Joseph Alkana RPT
----- Original Message ----- 
From: alan forsyth 
To: Pianotech 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:57 PM
Subject: newbie questions


>From Alan Barnyard's post: "5ths have such a slow beat that they are hard for most to tune accurately, as a primary interval"

It's much easier to use 5ths by listening to the second intersection of partials and not the first. However you will have to sensitize your hearing to discern that point.

AF
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