Thanks so much for you prompt and kind responses. I feel welcome in your group. If I had to do this over again perhaps I would have chosen the softer wood to fashion the pin block. No matter it is in the harp now. All these great respones prompt even more questions. The replies have me leaning towards Nicks response and his expertise on Delignit (glued steel). I did drill out from some of the scrap delignet lumber and tried to drive a 2/0 pin in. It was very tight. I can move it but my fear is more in driving it to it rest spot. I think I will order a .272 drill and give it another go. I have already ordered and received the 2 1\4" pins. Do you think i should reconsider this as well? That was the size that came out of the piano. There is a total of 30 large counter sunk screws that I have drilled out for and i have most of them in place. My final question on this list would be in finding centers coming through the bushings into the pin block. I assume I estimate the 5 degrees back and drill through the bushings making a shallow hole in the pin block and then remove the block and setup to do the drilling on a drill press. Is this the norm? Thanks again !. Emerson M.Torrey Director of Information Technology emerson at diprete-eng.com. DiPrete Engineering Moving Engineering Forward Two Stafford Court Cranston, RI 02920 tel 401-943-1000 fax 401-464-6006 www.DiPrete-Eng.com ü Please consider the environment before printing this em ________________________________________ From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of pianotech-request at ptg.org [pianotech-request at ptg.org] Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:53 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 6, Issue 83 Send pianotech mailing list submissions to pianotech at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pianotech-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at pianotech-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Drilling a pinblock (Nick Gravagne) 2. Does V S Profelt work in reverse? (reggaepass at aol.com) 3. Recording session (Allan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:07:09 -0700 From: "Nick Gravagne" <gravagnegang at att.net> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Drilling a pinblock To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Message-ID: <mailman.358.1239040388.22195.pianotech_ptg.org at ptg.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Emerson, Due to its high density, pressurized construction, and number of glue joints, the suggested bit size for Delignit and Falconwood pinblocks is the letter I (that is, capital I as in Island). The decimal size is 0.272"; anything smaller relative to 2/0 pins will cause a higher than necessary tuning pin torque IMO. Set your drill press speed to about 1000 rpms give or take a bit, depending on how your pulleys and belts combine. Since other well-intentioned posts have offered different bit sizes ranging from 0.257" on up to my suggested 0.272" you may be understandably confused. FWIW, I have used Delignit almost exclusively for 30 years. So, to satisfy yourself (and I must conclude that you have some familiarity with turning pins in a pinblock and tuning?), try the different bits in Delignit scrap, drive in some 2/0 by 2-3/8" pins (allow for plate thickness and a bit more) test with a tuning hammer and choose what you like. In my experience the smaller bits, such as the 0.257, and 0.261 are more suitable for high quality maple blocks and other similar varieties. Delignit and Falconwood exist in a density class of their own. It is not my practice to drill in two passes using a smaller bit to start. Others are convinced of the superiority of this practice. Again, make some tests and satisfy yourself. Remember that the initial torque will usually be higher than it will be later on. But in my experience, torque values in high-density blocks change little compared to less dense stuff. Delignit blocks I have installed thirty years ago still tune like champs. Set up your shop vac or other suction machine to remove the chips during drilling. Set the suction tube attachment (or whatever) as close to the bit as is practicable. You should see most of the chips going airborne into the hose/tube. Air being sucked in the area of the bit will also move across the spinning bit and will keep the bit cool enough for a consistent, non-burning operation. As has been suggested, try out the feed (speed of drilling the hole) in some Delignit scrap, but start out with about 4 or 5 seconds to drill through to the bottom. If you feel the block resisting your feed rate back off until your feel a smooth and continuous sensation. If an unhindered feed rate takes longer than 6 seconds you may need more rpms (or else your bit isn't sharp enough). By increasing and decreasing the feed rate thusly, you will find the right feed rate for your bit and your spindle rpms. You MUST have a sharp bit or you will ruin the job. Get a new letter I bit to try out. The best type is a fast-spiral, wide-flute bit as offered by piano supply companies; or do an online search for same. Fast spiral drills are used in relatively high feed rate applications under relatively low spindle speeds, and where removal of a large volume of material is required in the shortest amount of time. Be sure to drill the holes at the lean-back angle as you find in the original block. However, if you find that angle to be much greater or less than 85 degrees, a good rule of thumb is to use the 85 degrees (sometimes referred to as 5 degrees ----- i.e., 90 - 5 = 85 degrees). The pin angle has been a topic of debate with experienced rebuilders, and strong positions have been taken for and against absolutes, or for and against changing the angle in different sections of the scale, but if you follow this plan you will be well in the ballpark. It is not required to glue the block in, but make sure it is securely screwed in with at least 1 large counter-sunk screw in the base and two such screws in the treble. Good luck. Nick Gravagne, RPT Piano Technicians Guild Member Society Manufacturing Engineers Voice Mail 928-476-4143 _____ From: Emerson at diprete-eng.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:15:01 -0400 Subject: [pianotech] Drilling a Pin Block. I must start by saying I am new to this list as well as new to rebuilding piano's so please excuse my ignorance. I am rebuilding a 5 ft. McPhail grand and have a couple of questions regarding pin block drilling and installation. The new pin block material is DELIGNIT PIN BLOCK material and seems to me to be the hardest wood known to man. I am curious if anyone out there has a particular speed setting for the drill press and how different speeds affect the size of the hole. Currently I am using #2 pins and a .266 drill. Another question would be do I need to glue the block in? I don't believe it was glued previously. Thanks Emerson Torrey _____ Windows From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Dornfeld Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:18 AM To: pianotech Subject: [pianotech] Drilling a pinblock Back in the 1970s, when I got Falconwood pinblocks from Cliff Geers, it came with a booklet about installation. Originally he was the only supplier of this dense kind of pinblock in the US, if I recall. I do not know how the density of the Falconwood differs from the Delignit. They recommended using a .272" drill of the high helix variety. They also suggest speeds of 900 to 1000 r.p.m. I would also recommend buying a copy of the Piano Technicians Journal Reprints: Pinblocks and Plates and searching this list's archives for more ideas, there is plenty there! Good luck, Bruce Dornfeld, RPT bdornfeld at earthlink.net North Shore Chapter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090406/a60b0c6c/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:15:31 -0400 From: reggaepass at aol.com Subject: [pianotech] Does V S Profelt work in reverse? To: pianotech at ptg.org Message-ID: <8CB84F26CC084FC-1708-230 at MBLK-M37.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" List, I am working on a twenty year old Baldwin R which has not been played much. ?The front rail key bushings were in various stages of too tight. ?The key pins are .145", so I?initially eased with a .147" straight broach in a rheostat controlled soldering iron (set to a setting used successfully on many previous outings). ?Barely made any difference at all. ?Stepped it up to the next larger size broach, .150". ?Things improved but just barely. ?I was not getting the slight but positive "knock" from side to side that I usually work for, but the keys were at least coming back up (!). ?I don't know if the bushing cloth is too thick, or too spongy, or if the mortise was somehow too small to begin with (if that is even a possibility), but I do not have great hopes for the keys remaining functional for long as some are already showing signs of needing to be eased again. So my question is this: Has anyone used V S Profelt with appropriately sized cauls overnight as an effective fix for bushings that are too tight? Thanks, Alan Eder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090406/ecc55335/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:53:07 -0400 From: "Allan" <allan at sutton.net> Subject: [pianotech] Recording session To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Message-ID: <20090406175306.D977E49B218 at smtprelay03.hostedemail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am being hired to sit on a 3 day recording session for a professional trio next week. The piano will be a Yamaha C7 that I can have access to beforehand. I am reading Under the Lid by Stephen.H Brady. I will try to attend the concert they are giving the day before with the very same repertoire. I'm thinking of going tune this piano the very best I can and record the result in Tunelab so I feel confident on that aspect. Would they be asking for A=442? Anything one of you can give advice? Would any of you master tuners have a Tunelab file of a fine tuning for that instrument that I can use to study? Thank you for any input. Allan Sutton www.pianotechniquemontreal.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.42/2042 - Release Date: 04/06/09 06:22:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090406/e2808623/attachment.html> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pianotech mailing list pianotech at ptg.org http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.org End of pianotech Digest, Vol 6, Issue 83 ****************************************
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