I almost did, sort of. Check it out. Hope you all enjoy it. http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/647259/Re:%20Owning%20 and%20operating%20a%20pia.html#Post647259 Jer -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:47 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Running a Business as a business. I'm just using your comments for a springboard. Quit being so damned sensitive. Enough on this. Write a book. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Groot Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:36 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Running a Business as a business. There you go again, changing the point being made. " But if one wants to do a favor and help someone out with a pencil, why not?" So, do it then. I don't care. "Let's not blow it out of proportion as the reason their business isn't successful." Did I really say or mean that their business would fail due to that one trivial matter, the pencil? Ok, let's change the topic then as I did in the subject line. 1. Become highly skilled in whatever area of this business you choose to be in. 2. Learn how to run and operate a businesses. One will be more successful long term. 3. Have clear are precise written rules for yourself and your customers to charge more fairly and honestly. 4. Have clear and precise written prices so neither yourself nor your customer gets screwed. 5. Do a lot of reading and learn how to interact with clients properly. This doesn't just entail reading about pianos and repairs. It's easy so far, care to add to it? Jer -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:19 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and running a business as a business Nobody would argue with your first point. The nuances and individual situations that determine just how that's done are what we are talking about. The example you give of the $28000 a year person has less to do with the discussion than it does with general competence. We haven't even mentioned the importance of being skilled. The person who is meticulous in their business practices, never misses an opportunity to charge for every service and mile driven, still won't have any business if the service they provide stinks. Similarly if one (notice I'm avoiding saying "you" to avoid any misunderstanding) is rude to people then they are not likely to get very far no matter how skilled and meticulous they are in their business practices. The example of what owners allow their employees to do is not relevant since we are the owners and owners do choose at times to bend the rules. They just don't want their employees to do that. Neither would I. In summary, of course one shouldn't be afraid to charge for their time, expense and expertise. At the same time one should be flexible enough to assess each situation on its own merits and make a decision without fearing the consequences of a single act. Price structures are helpful (I have them outlined and itemized for rebuilding and servicing as well as a set hourly rate which is published). That can take the guess work out of making estimates which can be tricky for the inexperienced and create situations of price commitments that are unrealistic and may establish a history that one may not wish to be held to. But if one wants to do a favor and help someone out with a pencil, why not? Let's not blow it out of proportion as the reason their business isn't successful. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com ...snipped The only thing that I AM VERY HARD LINED ON is that more piano technicians need to run this business like a business or learn how. Yet, many do not run it as such. These same people do not know how to run it as a business or in my opinion, do not take it very seriously that it is a business. They need to stick to the principal of charging when appropriate, which is, most of the time. They should not be afraid to charge and especially, should not apologize for doing so. As another poster mentioned, the owners of other businesses will not allow their employee's to show up for free or to charge less for obvious reasons. Here is a prime example of what I mean. I have someone in town here that is constantly complaining about not being able to make a living. This person runs their business more as a charity, treats their customers rudely, gives discounts to everyone and is making less than $28,000 a year tuning full time. His work load is now half of what it was last year and he wonders why? Yet, I find out from this person that their prices have dropped or have been the same for 7 or 8 years running, he doesn't even charge for a service call, doesn't charge extra for driving 150 miles round trip, charges only for his time, he's doing services for free in an attempt gain more work which is not working, he's gaining more free clientele instead yet, he still doesn't get it and will not listen to reason. Jer _____ avast! 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