>>On the other hand, if you work for XYZ Cabinet Company, which has saws unequipped with this safety device, and you zip off four fingers on your left hand, you will be going on disability. Then we as a society shoulder the expense for XYZ's cost-cutting measures. I bet that sort of stuph costs me thousands of dollars each year, so I take it rather personally Then that is what we should fight against. There is where the real injustice lay, forcing people to shoulder the expense of other people's carelessness/ problems. If I voluntarily wish to help my neighbor who had his fingers chopped off, it is charity. If the sheriff comes with a shotgun to take up a collection, it is theft. A family with 6 children in a nearby town tragically just lost everything in a fire, house, clothes, possessions, one 9 year old boy, and another sibling in the hospital not expected to live. The outpouring from the community has been off the charts, they actually had to stop accepting clothes and material goods because there was no place to put them. Several contractors have already agreed to donate their labor to rebuild the house. Thousands of dollars have been given to a special account at the local bank. A car dealer loaned them a car so they could make the 100-mile commute to visit the child in intensive care. FEMA was not called in and no forced theft by government agents was required. God gets the glory and people feel good that they were able to help, not resentful that they were forced to help. When we are allowed to voluntarily help people our humanity is enhanced. Dean Dean May cell 812.239.3359 PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272 Terre Haute IN 47802 -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Sarah Fox Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:20 AM To: Pianotech Subject: Re: SawStop safety table saw Hi Greg, OK, true, I agree that we should all have the right to take our own risks however we feel appropriate, making decisions as adults, so long as those decisions don't impact others. (Geesh, I could talk about quite a few things the gubuhment prevents me from doing, just because the good folx of this country think they're unusual. The linguistic importance of "defining" this and that comes to mind.) I do agree that the government often oversteps its bounds. . But I agree that if you risk chopping off your own fingers on your own time at your own expense (no insurance, Medicare, govt-subsidized hospitals, tax-paid ambulances, etc) , and with no risk that I'll be paying your your upkeep, either through my high taxes or through my high insurance premiums, then who am I to complain? None of the gubuhment's business! I truly believe, however, that most matters of government regulation derives from the belief that people's carelessness, stupidity, etc., would otherwise become a burden to the American taxpayer. Beyond that, I doubt anyone in Washington gives a fig what happens to any of us -- except perhaps when it comes to preventing perceived abominations of linguistics! ;-) Peace, Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell@ameritech.net> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 11:04 PM Subject: Re: SawStop safety table saw > > Sarah, > I completely understand your point but what you might be missing > is that it should not be crammed down other peoples throats just because > someone seems to have found what THEY consider to be a better way. In fact > I think that any of the safety equipment that you've mentioned should be > OPTIONAL not mandatory. This is just one more example of someone assuming > they know what's best for everyone else and working to pass laws to MAKE > you conform to their views. I call that meddling in other peoples > business. There are many things in life that are considered acceptable > risk. If I walk in my suburb and cross the street I might get hit by a > bus. I still choose to cross as I deem it an acceptable risk. We drive on > wet or snowy roads when the danger of fender benders or a serious accident > is a very real risk and yet we drive. Life is full of inherent dangers. It > always will be. Not every better way should be legislated and mandatory is > my point. If I pose no danger to you why should you tell me what I HAVE to > do? You can preach all day why I should but you should never tell me I > MUST. > > > > At 10:33 PM 12/22/2004, you wrote: >>Hi Greg, >> >>My dad was an architect, so I've been around the construction for a huge >>chunk of my life. I've known a few VERY careful professionals who have >>removed parts of their bodies, including a very good friend, who chopped >>her left index finger off with a miter saw. All it takes is a bit of >>fatigue and a fleeting moment of inattention. While I, too, squirm at the >>thought of more government regulations, I'm also baffled at why people >>don't WANT or even DEMAND these sorts of safety features on their >>equipment! They're similar to the folks who drive without seat belts and >>leave loaded, unlocked guns around for their kids to play with. They >>think that accidents always happen to OTHER people. >> >>When groaning about the added cost of safety equipment, don't forget to >>weigh that cost against the cost of reattachment surgery, down-time, and >>impaired functionality. What's the real cost? What is the fraction of >>people you know, of your skill level and attention to safety, who have >>de-fingered themselves? Multiply that fraction by ten or twenty thousand >>(or much more) dollars. That's your estimated lifetime cost of finger >>loss, on average, thinking like a gambler. Now compare that cost against >>the cost of the equipment. >> >>And that's just dollars and cents. How much are your fingers really worth >>to you? Much more than the cost of reattachment surgery? (Mine are.) >> >>I applaud the technology -- "air bags" for power tools. You can bet that >>my next table saw will have one, provided it's available. >> >>Peace, >>Sarah >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell@ameritech.net> >>To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:51 PM >>Subject: Re: SawStop safety table saw >> >> >>>Not only that Cy and Ron but the first I heard of this unit, the inventor >>>was pushing to get this as a mandatory thing for all saws sold. Trying to >>>work himself into guaranteed profits it sounds like. Besides even the >>>unseemliness of that do we really need one more level of government >>>involved demanding that we have safeguards on our equipment? When will we >>>learn? Some things are just inherently dangerous. Can't we just >>>understand that and exercise caution without something more being >>>demanded of us? This item would certainly cost more and break down on >>>occasion. I, for one, am not willing to undergo more expense for >>>someone's careless behavior that cost them a finger. Why punish everyone >>>for something like that? As an add on? Fine! As mandatory? I'm against it >>>%1000. >>> >>>my 2 cents >>> >>>Greg Newell >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>At 03:27 PM 12/22/2004, you wrote: >>> >>>>>Ron, why wouldn't professional woodworkers like it? What are the >>>>>downsides, besides the initial expense? (Assuming you don't trigger >>>>>the safety device a few times a day...) >>>>> >>>>>--Cy Shuster-- >>>> >>>> >>>>Hi Cy, >>>>Typically, the first thing the professional does is take off all the >>>>OSHA approved guards and toss them in the shed. They tend to want to be >>>>able to see the blade so they know where their hands are in relation to >>>>it. In this case, the brake doesn't create a hazard by hiding the blade, >>>>but it adds extra cost for magic that looks altogether too good to be >>>>believable. Professionals tend to get hurt on table saws by kick-backs >>>>while sawing something. Can this braking system tell the difference >>>>between cutting a piece of maple and cutting a piece of maple AND a >>>>couple of fingers? Seems like that's asking a lot, especially to a >>>>professional who has spent a lot of years experiencing the limitations >>>>as well as the capabilities of machinery. It supposedly can, but how far >>>>can it be trusted, what kind of maintenance is required, does it reset >>>>automatically, and do you have to risk an occasional hot dog to verify >>>>that it is still working? Electronic ignitions come to mind. I've spent >>>>thousands of dollars through the years having electronic ignition >>>>systems on furnaces and cars repaired (replaced, actually), when I could >>>>have fixed something with a standing pilot or gapped points easily, >>>>cheaply, and quickly myself. Does it affect changing blades quickly and >>>>easily? Maybe I'm wrong, but professionals I've known want simple sturdy >>>>precise indestructible machinery that doesn't get in their way, or >>>>depend on something they can't see to work. Ah, that's another thing I >>>>didn't read. Will a saw thus equipped still work if the sensor dies, or >>>>is there a "dead man" switch that shuts down the power? Is it >>>>self-diagnostic? Can replacement parts be gotten for self-maintenance, >>>>or is the saw down until it can go in to the service center for >>>>authorized, and presumably expensive, repair? None of this would look >>>>awfully good to the professional. Is there a site that has some detailed >>>>practical information? >>>> >>>>Ron N >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> >>>Greg Newell >>>Greg's piano Forté >>>mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > Greg Newell > Greg's piano Forté > mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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