More False Beats S&S

Richard Brekne Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no
Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:57:41 +0100


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Farrell wrote:

> Thanks for the thoughts Richard.
> 
> 
> In this case, I am not entirely convinced at this point that I am looking at
> a case of loose bridge pins.
> 
>> As far as lessening of the falseness, you
>> probably achieved a very temporary solution by re-seating the pins.
> 

Grin... sorry... of course I meant re-seating the strings on the 
bridge... this also is the case if you tap the pins themselves a bit 
deeper into the holes.  Rons comments pertaining to the so called 
"bottoming out theory" and to this string seating buisness jive well 
with my own experience.

> 
> Reseating the pins? I did not push/tap the pins. I did however seat the
> strings in every gently way I could think of.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you noticed that Ron has not provided input on my recent post regarding
> how many hours one would charge a client to recap a bass bridge (I did
> request that no bionic bridge dudes need reply!)?  ;-)


Perhaps he was in for a bionic check up .... or too busy with those two 
preverted posts... you know the ones... "zipping up the fly in public" 
and " sun bleached tail". grin....

> 
> Terry Farrell
> Piano Tuning & Service
> Tampa, Florida
> mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Brekne" <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: More False Beats S&S
> 
> 
>> 
>> Farrell wrote:
>> 
>>> Tuning a 1996 S&S M today I noticed many prominent false beats in the
>>> hi-treble section.....cymbal-tone syndrome.... Gently place rod on top
>> 
> of bridge pin... False beat does not go away, but.tone dies out real fast,
> like the string was poorly muted.
> 
>> 
>> Terry I have noticed the same thing on the Steinway grands, and have yet
>> to encounter that same muting of the sound on other pianos... I really
>> don't know why this is the case... I do know that if you find you can
>> get rid of some of the falseness this way, then CA or epoxy in the
>> Bridge pin holes will help.
>> 
>> As far as the cymbal syndrome is concerned... you are not the first
>> person to mention this in relation to Steinways (or other grands with
>> highly active front duplexes) Solution is to redress the capo bar and
>> voice the hammers. You can also get into retuning the duplex... read Ed
>> McMorrows book for some interesting thoughts on this point. He refers to
>> this "cymbal syndrome" of yours to a kind of whistling noise. At least I
>> think you are talking about the same thing... :)
>> 
>>> 
>>> So what happened in the lower half of this section? Why did just
>> 
> touching
> 
>>> (super-duper lightly only) the forward bridge pins cause the strings to
>> 
> mute
> 
>>> out? On the Boston that I posted on recently, as well as many other
>> 
> pianos,
> 
>>> you hear a false beat and when you press gently on loose bridge pin,
>> 
> false
> 
>>> beat is eliminated AND tone remains clear
>> 
>> Don't worry about the muting effect... it wont happen when you CA or
>> Epoxy the Bridge pins. As far as lessening of the falseness, you
>> probably achieved a very temporary solution by re-seating the pins. I
>> like Ron N's position on this seating business... makes a lot of sense.
>> 
>>> I'm really trying to understand the causes of so much garbage sounds
>> 
> that
> 
>>> emanate from the high treble of pianos (er, a, well thinking of some
>> 
> other
> 
>>> pianos, I guess anywhere on the scale!). Any thoughts on this situation?
>> 
>> 
>> You and just about everyone else. Its fascinating for sure. Lots of
>> sources of diverse types of noise and falseness. As far as the muting
>> effect you observed... I think .... and only think... (as I am but an
>> egg in these matters) that the Steinway bridge and bridge pin
>> configuration is like highly sensitive to changes in mass. Clamp a small
>> vise grips onto a bridge pin on a Steinway and the string goes dead
>> sounding... but on many other pianos there is only a small difference in
>> sound quality. Why this is the case...beats me but I bet the answer is
>> an interesting one.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Terry Farrell
>>> Piano Tuning & Service
>>> Tampa, Florida
>>> mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com
>>> 
>> --
>> Richard Brekne
>> RPT, N.P.T.F.
>> Bergen, Norway
>> mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no
>> 
>> 

-- 
Richard Brekne
RPT, N.P.T.F.
Bergen, Norway
mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no


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